Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:53 pm

auto wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:27 pm

i have lot to think about it, specially about what could mean "there is no return to any state of existence".
Thinking about it is a fruitless endeavour, one has to focus his attention on the experience of removing the shackles of existence. In other words; seeing through the self by focusing on what is happening.

The text seems to refer to the eight jhana's and how the progress results eventually into dissolving/Nirvana, after which there is no state of existence anymore. This state should not be seen as a physical state, but as a mental state. The self (existence) has dissolved. See chapter 14 on Nirvana.

Its good to hear you have everything figured out there C86, maybe can you shed some of your thoughts about attainment of streamentry and ethical conduct?


I didn't follow the Theravada route, but the whole four levels of enlightenment and buddhist cosmology with its worlds/realms, hells and certain amount of rebirths one has to have before attaining another stage and such, seem very religious to me. They do not appear in my experience and there is nothing I can say about it, other than that to me it seems that they can be a distraction on the path to Nirvana. But if it helps someone, who am I to judge?

Like what is also mentioned in the sutta you refered to; with wisdom comes ethical behaviour. If one gains wisdom, one gains wisdom in how to gain ultimate happiness, ultimate happiness is achieved by selflessness behaviour and this is automatically ethical.

auto
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by auto » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:00 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:53 pm
auto wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:27 pm

i have lot to think about it, specially about what could mean "there is no return to any state of existence".
Thinking about it is a fruitless endeavour, one has to focus his attention on the experience of removing the shackles of existence. In other words; seeing through the self by focusing on what is happening.

The text seems to refer to the eight jhana's and how the progress results eventually into dissolving/Nirvana, after which there is no state of existence anymore. This state should not be seen as a physical state, but as a mental state. The self (existence) has dissolved. See chapter 14 on Nirvana.
it is 4 jhanas, the "there is no return to any state of existence" could refer to arupa jhanas. But i don't know so i need read Sutta and think.

https://suttacentral.net/an9.36/en/sujato

Take a mendicant who, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption.
They contemplate the phenomena there—included in form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness—as impermanent, as suffering, as diseased, as an abscess, as a dart, as misery, as an affliction, as alien, as falling apart, as empty, as not-self.

So yadeva tattha hoti rūpagataṃ vedanāgataṃ saññāgataṃ saṅkhāragataṃ viññāṇagataṃ, te dhamme aniccato dukkhato rogato gaṇḍato sallato aghato ābādhato parato palokato suññato anattato samanupassati.
as you see the sunnata and anatta is regards to phenomena included in form, feeling, perception..

Also the "remaining in jhana" is a skill what not all mendicants can do.

https://suttacentral.net/sn34.11/en/sujato
“Mendicants, there are these four meditators.
What four?
One meditator is skilled in entering immersion but not in remaining in it. …”
when you are aware you can recognize the self, that you are aware, the claim is that that it is not sunnata nor anatta.


the ending of defilements
They turn their mind away from those things, So tehi dhammehi cittaṃ paṭivāpeti.
and apply it to the deathless: So tehi dhammehi cittaṃ paṭivāpetvā amatāya dhātuyā cittaṃ upasaṃharati:
‘This is peaceful; this is sublime—that is, the stilling of all activities, the letting go of all attachments, the ending of craving, fading away, cessation, extinguishment.’
‘etaṃ santaṃ etaṃ paṇītaṃ yadidaṃ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭinissaggo taṇhākkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānan’ti.

Abiding in that they attain the ending of defilements. So tattha ṭhito āsavānaṃ khayaṃ pāpuṇāti.
see you need abide in a state what is gotten by turning away from what is not self.
PeterC86 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:53 pm
I didn't follow the Theravada route, but the whole four levels of enlightenment and buddhist cosmology with its worlds/realms, hells and certain amount of rebirths one has to have before attaining another stage and such, seem very religious to me. They do not appear in my experience and there is nothing I can say about it, other than that to me it seems that they can be a distraction on the path to Nirvana. But if it helps someone, who am I to judge?
https://suttacentral.net/an9.36/en/sujato
If they don’t attain the ending of defilements, with the ending of the five lower fetters they’re reborn spontaneously, because of their passion and love for that meditation. They are extinguished there, and are not liable to return from that world.
No ce āsavānaṃ khayaṃ pāpuṇāti, teneva dhammarāgena tāya dhammanandiyā pañcannaṃ orambhāgiyānaṃ saṃyojanānaṃ parikkhayā opapātiko hoti tattha parinibbāyī anāvattidhammo tasmā lokā.
i assume that is a religion for you. No wonder you say it when you have the views like you have written in your pdf.

auto
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by auto » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:53 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:47 am
I only say that the self is just a mere mental fabrication out of an attempt to give meaning to reality, as would reality exist upon itself. It is helpful for our surviving, however one has to realize that our thoughts are only our thoughts and nothing more than that. Because reality is of dependent arising, it doesn't exist upon itself and its essence is empty. So our thoughts about something in reality do not resemble reality, because we automatically exclude things by defining something. So inherently our thoughts always fall short to reality. So, although they come in hand for our survival, we can not construct a world-view, or a self, that will resemble reality in a perfect way. As reality is a continuing interdependent flow, always changing, always different.

............you can always relate the texts to the sutta's if you want.
So is that what you meant?

https://suttacentral.net/dn21/en/sujato
..“Concepts of identity that emerge from the proliferation of perceptions are the source of thoughts.”

“Vitakko kho, devānaminda, papañcasaññāsaṅkhānidāno papañcasaññāsaṅkhāsamudayo papañcasaññāsaṅkhājātiko papañcasaññāsaṅkhāpabhavo; papañcasaññāsaṅkhāya sati vitakko hoti; papañcasaññāsaṅkhāya asati vitakko na hotī”ti.
concept of identity.

http://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/s/saṅkhā
saṅkhāPTS Pali-English dictionary The Pali Text Society's Pali-English dictionary
Saṅkhā,(f.) & Saṅkhyā (f.) [fr.saṁ+khyā] 1.enumeration,calculation,estimating D.II,277; M.I,109; Miln.59 ‹-› 2.number Dāvs.I,25.-- 3.denomination,definition,word,name (cp.on term K.S.I.321) S.III,71 sq.; IV,376 sq.; Nd2 617 (=uddesa gaṇanā paññatti); Dhs.1306; Miln.25.--saṅkhaṁ gacchati to be styled,called or defined; to be put into words D.I,199,201; Vin.II,239; M.I,190,487; A.I,68,244=II.113; Pug.42; Nett 66 sq.; Vism.212,225,235,294 (khy); SnA 167 (khy); DhsA.11 (khy).saṅkhaṁ gata (cp.saṅkhāta) is called DA.I,41 (uyyānaṁ Ambalaṭṭhikā t’eva s.g.).saṅkhaṁ na upeti (nopeti) cannot be called by a name,does not count,cannot be defined It.54; Sn.209,749,911,1074; Nd1 327; Nd2 617.(Page 664)
identification and self are different concepts, likely.

PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:42 am

auto wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:53 pm
So is that what you meant?
Yes, and if one understands that process, one can look deeper into himself by finding out; what are my thoughts?

See also chapter 3 and 4 for information into this and chapter 10 again.

For understanding the chain of dependent origination of the self, the twelve nidanas, it is helpful to read it backwards; from the last to the first. Because your starting point is aging, as you are already born as a self, it is easier to go from there backwards to the root cause.

I might change the order in the text to support this or add this note.

-Edit- I changed the order, so the chain is now explained backwards in the text.
https://foundationsofhumanlife.com/10-the-self/

auto
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by auto » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:55 am

PeterC86 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:42 am
auto wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:53 pm
So is that what you meant?
Yes, and if one understands that process, one can look deeper into himself by finding out; what are my thoughts?

See also chapter 3 and 4 for information into this and chapter 10 again.

For understanding the chain of dependent origination of the self, the twelve nidanas, it is helpful to read it backwards; from the last to the first. Because your starting point is aging, as you are already born as a self, it is easier to go from there backwards to the root cause.

I might change the order in the text to support this or add this note.

-Edit- I changed the order, so the chain is now explained backwards in the text.
https://foundationsofhumanlife.com/10-the-self/
i highlight a part of chapter 3 what seem summary the message you convey,
If you live without expectations and let go of the desire to give meaning to the objective reality, you can experience sensory perceptions more intensively or more clearly. You then experience awareness as it enters through your senses, without judging it. You experience the tones, rhythm, melody and the voices in music and the taste, aroma, and consistency of food. You go into your sensory experience, as it were, and do not distinguish between the stimulus and your sensory perception.
which is i assume the same message what J.Krishnamurti tells:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=31576&start=105#p508212
can we observe a mountain without single word.
Find out if we can look at world without reaction and then find out if can look at all that network of words not interfering our observation.
"careful watching", "looking at the world like you lookin at the world first time", "brain is tremendously attentive".. "this watching is not egocentric movement"
"how we move from egocentric thinking about oneself to that "careful looking"? he says it is a wrong question because if you say you must stop being self-centered then the 'must' is still in the same category as 'thinking about oneself'.
Answer is that the answer is in the question, the answer reveals itself, perceiving and observing is not time, whilst the egocentric thinking is time..timebinding quality is essentially the self
what i want to know, do you go further than this? what else there is on store?

Secondly does the "must" in that JK approximate(heard from a video him talking) quote presents the concept of "impulse" in your pdf chapter 10?

PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:24 pm

auto wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:55 am
i highlight a part of chapter 3 what seem summary the message you convey,
what i want to know, do you go further than this? what else there is on store?
That's only a small part of it all, I tried to describe the path to Nirvana in a way that should be more easy for western minds to understand. Nirvana can be explained from a rational and logical perspective. That is what I did, because western minds are often conditioned to read texts which use logic. So, instead of trying to figure out what is pointed to in a long and cryptical dialogue in an old writing style, one can read a text in a form which one is used to, to be able to understand what one reads more easily.

To me, it seems there are two main difficulties on the way to Nirvana;

1. Understanding the teaching

2. Understanding the self

If you do not understand the first one, it will be extremely hard to figure out the second one. I assume that a lot of people from the West are struggling with the first one, because of the way the sutta's and books about Buddhism are written. I struggled with the first one almost until the end. My writings explain everything which buddhism tries to teach about the self and leads to the same Nirvana, but in a different way.

If a teaching is easier for you to understand, it is easier to understand the self. Maybe you have no trouble understanding the sutta's. Maybe you like reading tons of cryptic dialogue and you are progressing really well in understanding yourself. That's fine and I celebrate that.

But maybe some people profit from a teaching, which leads to the same insight, which is easier for them to understand. You can check for yourself if my writings lead to the same Nirvana by crosschecking with the sutta's you are trying to understand. But you have to do this aftwards, after you have read and understood my writings, else you are going to compare two texts, both of which you do not understand. That will not help you.

I hope you don't mind that I am not going to answer all your questions before you have read the text. I am not going to keep refering to the text. If you are interested; please read it. If you're not interested, that's also fine. Like I said earlier, you can use it as an alternative to reflect upon afterwards. It leads to the same insight, but you will not be able to see this until you have the insight.

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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by DooDoot » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:53 am

PeterC86 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:42 am
For understanding the chain of dependent origination of the self, the twelve nidanas... https://foundationsofhumanlife.com/10-the-self/
I thought the twelve nidanas were about the dependent origination of sorrow & suffering. Also, my impression is the idea of "self" first forms at the 9th nidana & is finalised at the 11th nidana (thus does not require 12 nidana).
PeterC86 wrote:This origination of a person is explained in Buddhist texts by the twelve links of mutually dependent origination;
:candle:
PeterC86 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:24 pm
To me, it seems there are two main difficulties on the way to Nirvana;... 2. Understanding the self
I think the path to Nirvana begins with learning to drop craving. Then when samadhi is naturally developed in this way, the sense of "self" will gradually disappear, as it is consumed or dissolved by samadhi clarity, stability & bliss. I think focusing on the 'self' (i.e., 'not-self') is like attempting to climb a tree from the top.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by auto » Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:40 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:24 pm
That's only a small part of it all, I tried to describe the path to Nirvana in a way that should be more easy for western minds to understand. Nirvana can be explained from a rational and logical perspective. That is what I did, because western minds are often conditioned to read texts which use logic. So, instead of trying to figure out what is pointed to in a long and cryptical dialogue in an old writing style, one can read a text in a form which one is used to, to be able to understand what one reads more easily.

To me, it seems there are two main difficulties on the way to Nirvana;

1. Understanding the teaching

2. Understanding the self

If you do not understand the first one, it will be extremely hard to figure out the second one. I assume that a lot of people from the West are struggling with the first one, because of the way the sutta's and books about Buddhism are written. I struggled with the first one almost until the end. My writings explain everything which buddhism tries to teach about the self and leads to the same Nirvana, but in a different way.

If a teaching is easier for you to understand, it is easier to understand the self. Maybe you have no trouble understanding the sutta's. Maybe you like reading tons of cryptic dialogue and you are progressing really well in understanding yourself. That's fine and I celebrate that.

But maybe some people profit from a teaching, which leads to the same insight, which is easier for them to understand. You can check for yourself if my writings lead to the same Nirvana by crosschecking with the sutta's you are trying to understand. But you have to do this aftwards, after you have read and understood my writings, else you are going to compare two texts, both of which you do not understand. That will not help you.

I hope you don't mind that I am not going to answer all your questions before you have read the text. I am not going to keep refering to the text. If you are interested; please read it. If you're not interested, that's also fine. Like I said earlier, you can use it as an alternative to reflect upon afterwards. It leads to the same insight, but you will not be able to see this until you have the insight.

just sit, not one day but every day in every weather and observe thoughts and the problems, desire to go and enjoy life instead of dedicating your time to hmm nothing just sitting wasting your time away, it should then cause also sensations in body what you notice..you can't get away from these sensations so simply as you suggest, it requires cultivation and here comes to play the easy part is that how easy you get to assess the sensations what matter and by holding yourself on these points it will allow you to do something..it is difficult as you need use two funtions in single session if can't then you are still practicing reaching to that place where you can and once you can you still need practice since when your discenrment gets better you are unable to buy into previous deluded way..


you can't make things easier as of by dumbing down information. Suttas already are short texts, writing one word it is big and important subject what requires an A4 to explain.
PeterC86 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:24 pm
That's only a small part of it all,
can you tell then what you do when you are "attentively watching" what will result from that or what you are cultivating or is there something else in store??

why i even bother, Suttas are full of instructions..so why i should read yours what doesn't have any??
PeterC86 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:24 pm
Maybe you have no trouble understanding the sutta's. Maybe you like reading tons of cryptic dialogue and you are progressing really well in understanding yourself. That's fine and I celebrate that.
that is not it, there should be someone who explain Sutta in a way that wouldn't feel like a random person just yesterday learned about Sutta. And if you know rules and stuff you can progress on even reading bs because just note what it is.

https://foundationsofhumanlife.com/13-the-middle-way/
Distinction between yourself and so called others is the fundament for the contradiction between these concepts. For example; you might feel successful because you compare yourself with others, or you compare your feeling with an earlier feeling.
Before you were unsuccessful, but only because you saw others who were successful in your eyes. If you feel successful because you reach your own goals, you are living in your own world.
For a satisfying life, you will have to overcome fears. In other words, you will have to let them go.
yes to be rich you have to become rich, if want eat food you need eat food. If i want to be fearless, i need become fearless.


But yours for satisfying life you will have to overcome fears is illogical, is purely random claim, your pdf is random. Probably 1 out of 7 people find your pdf not annoying <--purely random claim.

If slow witted therefore don't have to worry about anything reaches to brain and autonomous nervous system. If get discernment in 20 years then past memory arises of this and pain arises too, you get hurt because you realize how little you knew and how long it took to realize it.

auto
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by auto » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:06 pm

if you not believe in that there is self feeling feelings then there isn't. If you believe in there is a self then there is.

do you know why it is like that?

it is because of designation. You seem don't take that notion into account when preaching but genuinely believe there isn't a self out there that by you still imply an existence out there(outside of All, sense organ and its object).

if a deluded person sees delusion(its All for him/her there is) then you don't start convince that it doesn't exist, because for a deluded there is. You need teach nirodha, cessation.

https://foundationsofhumanlife.com/14-nirvana/
We are merely a mental fabrication from the attempt to identify and define ourselves out of ignorance. The ignorance that there truly is nothing to identify with permanently. The moment you have let go of the identification with form, you are left with the identification with the formless. Although you do not define a form anymore, you do recognize you experience something. We attain Nirvana when we also have let go of the identification with the formless. We are conscious that nothing is truly formed, as the essence of form is empty. This emptiness means that something is without form. However, also the essence of the formless is empty and is therefore nothing. So nothing is formed, and nothing is without form. Nothing does not come, and nothing does not go. Nothing is permanent; everything is impermanent. We are dissolved into nothingness, as we were nothing to begin with.
you are defining things here. You don't acknowledge that you won't reach someone who doesn't think he/she is a mere mental fabrication. Therefore your teaching is ekaṃsika

http://dictionary.sutta.org/browse/e/ekaṃsika
ekaṃsikaConcise Pali-English Dictionary by A.P. Buddhadatta Mahathera
ekaṃsika:[adj.] definite; sure; pertaining to one shoulder.

auto
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by auto » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:05 pm

https://suttacentral.net/an7.24/en/sujato
they don’t stop half-way after achieving some insignificant distinction, they can expect growth, not decline.
how do you know your realization of nirvana isn't insignificant distinction?

also

there were a teacher Araka who taught dhamma, at that time,

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/AN/AN7_70.html
“Now at that time, monks, the human life span was 60,000 years, with girls marriageable at 500. And at that time there were (only) six afflictions: cold, heat, hunger, thirst, defecation, & urination. Yet even though people were so long-lived, long-lasting, with so few afflictions, that teacher Araka taught the Dhamma to his disciples in this way: ‘Next to nothing, brahmans, is the life of human beings—limited, trifling, of much stress & many despairs. One should touch this (truth) like a sage, do what is skillful, follow the holy life. For one who is born there is no freedom from death.’
..
“Thus, monks, I have reckoned the life of a person living for 100 years: I have reckoned the life span, reckoned the seasons, reckoned the years,1 reckoned the months, reckoned the fortnights, reckoned the nights, reckoned the days, reckoned the meals, reckoned the obstacles to eating. Whatever a teacher should do—seeking the welfare of his disciples, out of sympathy for them—that have I done for you.

Over there are the roots of trees; over there, empty dwellings. Practice jhāna, monks. Don’t be heedless. Don’t later fall into regret. This is our message to you all.”

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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:46 pm

I expanded the explanations in the last chapter, and fixed some errors.

I also added buttons at the bottom of every chapter, at the recommendation from someone here.

@Auto; Nothing can't be defined. Also, there is nothing, and only nothing, beyond nothingness.

It seems to me that you don't really see what I am trying to do, and maybe this applies to more people. I will try to explain;

Normally when someone from the West starts on the path, he would be told to just sit and focus on sensations, like you said. However, the mind from someone from the West is bound into rational logic. So you can say to this person to sit, focus on sensations, and study sutta's, but because that mindset is so far from his current state of mind, he will have a lot of trouble transforming and understanding. Of course, with a lot of determination it is probably possible to achieve Nirvana this way. But instead of trying to push him in this radical different mindset, through reading the writings; his delusion, logic and self will slowly dissolve, through which his mind will automatically calm down.

Instead of trying to push the Western mind into a completely different state of mind, I try to approach the Western mind where it is at, after which the self gets rationally dissolved. You will find instructions if you read everything, and if you read closely. Besides, the sutta's are also preachings, but in a different format. It is about reflecting upon these preachings in one's own experience, that is when the preaching turns into a teaching.

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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by Dan74-MkII » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:57 am

Hi Peter

I only read some of what you've written, so my apologies if I am off the mark.

You seem to be proposing that awakening can be made a purely rational exercise. But we are so much more than the rational faculty and ignorance and delusion permeate our entire being.

Traditional methods, as you say, go against the grain and we encounter many obstacles. This process in and of itself is indispensable practice, as through encountering these obstacles, this resistance, we learn about our minds, train our minds and practice experientially. This is truly where practice is at - experience- mental and physical, emotional, sensual, on all levels of our being.

If practice is confined to rational understanding, it has little to no hope of truly penetrating to the marrow of our bones, of truly tranforming a sentient being into a Arahat.

Many teachers warn of intellectual realisation being mistaken for the real deal. I am wondering if this is in fact what you have done?

PeterC86
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Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:30 am

Dan74-MkII wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:57 am
Hi Peter

I only read some of what you've written, so my apologies if I am off the mark.

You seem to be proposing that awakening can be made a purely rational exercise. But we are so much more than the rational faculty and ignorance and delusion permeate our entire being.
Hi Dan,

Not quite, I am trying to say that concepts can be rationally dissolved by explaining their nature. In other words; the understanding of the true nature of reality and the self can be put in words. If the words are understood, for which the Western mind needs logic, the words lose their meaning and the concepts dissolve. Ignorance is lifted by understanding, this is not only a logical understanding, but must also come from direct experience. Even more so, if one comes close to Nirvana, the clinging to form is dissolved, after which understanding can not be achieved through logic, but the process can still be explained.
Traditional methods, as you say, go against the grain and we encounter many obstacles. This process in and of itself is indispensable practice, as through encountering these obstacles, this resistance, we learn about our minds, train our minds and practice experientially. This is truly where practice is at - experience- mental and physical, emotional, sensual, on all levels of our being.

If practice is confined to rational understanding, it has little to no hope of truly penetrating to the marrow of our bones, of truly tranforming a sentient being into a Arahat.
I understand your point and I agree that a lot of the progress lies in practice. Traditional methods say that with practice comes understanding. I say, and experienced myself, that with understanding also comes practice.

Which ever way you choose, explanations and instructions are still necessary. Why do the sutta's have so many pages? The difference between my writings and the sutta's is that I approach the path from a logical point of view. In the writings I explain, on multiple occasions, that enlightenment is not an intellectual exercise but experiential knowledge. The internalization of the insight into reality is becoming aware by observing and acting upon it.

When someone from the West tries to understand the sutta's, one tries to understand it rationally or logically, because that is how the Western mind is conditioned. So instead of translating the sutta's into a logical instruction to put into practice yourself, after which understanding is cultivated, I already translated the path, and when it is understood, one will automatically put it into practice, as one will reflect upon it from his own experience.

I am only explaining the path to Nirvana; the realization of the true nature of reality. I am not going into what an Arahat is, therefore, my writings are not Theravada.
Many teachers warn of intellectual realisation being mistaken for the real deal. I am wondering if this is in fact what you have done?
Nirvana cannot be a purely intellectual realisation, as it is a complete transformation of consciousness. So, I don't really know what the many teachers are refering to, but a purely intellectual realisation is indeed not the real deal.

I will give a summary as to where the chapters lead to.

Chapter 1; insight into the 'I' as a separate entity from nature, and insight into the nature of emotions.
Chapter 2; insight into the mental construct of the 'I'.
Chapter 3; insight into the process of seperating the 'I' from an object.
Chapter 4; insight into the nature of thoughts
Chapter 5; insight into the nature of feelings
Chapter 6; insight into the nature of consciousness
Chapter 7; insight into the dependent arising of the universe
Chapter 8; insight into the dependent arising of life
Chapter 9; insight into the dependent arising of the body
Chapter 10; insight into the dependent arising of the self
Chapter 11; insight into the dependent arising of reality
Chapter 12; insight into emptiness of essence
Chapter 13; insight into the middle way
Chapter 14; insight into nothingness, which leads to Nirvana

After fully understanding chapter 12, which one will only achieve after having insight into the previous, one will leave form consciousness behind. Which is, in relation to the buddhist texts, achieved after the four Rupa Jhana's. Although not everything in chapter 7 - 11 has to be understood, to be able to grasp dependent arising. I just tried to be thorough.

After the full understanding of chapter 14, one will leave the formless consciousness behind. Which is, according to the buddhist texts, achieved after the four Arupa Jhana's, after which, one attains Nirvana.

But as I said earlier, one doesn't have to exlusively read my writings to progress, one can switch between reading the sutta's and my writings. The path is the same, so they also refer to the same thing. One can also ignore my writings.

Thanks for your reply!

auto
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by auto » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:21 pm

PeterC86 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:46 pm
I expanded the explanations in the last chapter, and fixed some errors.

I also added buttons at the bottom of every chapter, at the recommendation from someone here.

@Auto; Nothing can't be defined. Also, there is nothing, and only nothing, beyond nothingness.

It seems to me that you don't really see what I am trying to do, and maybe this applies to more people. I will try to explain;

Normally when someone from the West starts on the path, he would be told to just sit and focus on sensations, like you said. However, the mind from someone from the West is bound into rational logic. So you can say to this person to sit, focus on sensations, and study sutta's, but because that mindset is so far from his current state of mind, he will have a lot of trouble transforming and understanding. Of course, with a lot of determination it is probably possible to achieve Nirvana this way. But instead of trying to push him in this radical different mindset, through reading the writings; his delusion, logic and self will slowly dissolve, through which his mind will automatically calm down.

Instead of trying to push the Western mind into a completely different state of mind, I try to approach the Western mind where it is at, after which the self gets rationally dissolved. You will find instructions if you read everything, and if you read closely. Besides, the sutta's are also preachings, but in a different format. It is about reflecting upon these preachings in one's own experience, that is when the preaching turns into a teaching.
Okay your teaching is for westerners bound to rational logic.

lets get over the atta once again:
It is the cause, what gives rise to atta(self) that cause is anicca, dukkha, anatta. Then make the cause unfit to play. Like by imaging skeleton to dissolve atta which is derived by seeing attractive form.
the atta or being what arises dependent on its cause is threat because if citta does not get liberated from that atta, its going to result in punitive existence.
Stream-entrant is safe from bad destinations because SE is not able to do deeds what cause birth in lower realms. Pity is to become aroused by gross things and delight in these and then enforcing atta to become lower fetter. Therefore need better the conduct, morality etc.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"One sees with right discernment, lord, that 'this has come into being.'
Seeing with right discernment that 'this has come into being,' one practices for disenchantment with, for dispassion toward, for the cessation of what has come into being.
One sees with right discernment that 'it has come into being from this nutriment.'
Seeing with right discernment that 'it has come into being from this nutriment,' one practices for disenchantment with, for dispassion toward, for the cessation of the nutriment by which it has come into being.
One sees with right discernment that 'from the cessation of this nutriment, what has come into being is subject to cessation.' Seeing with right discernment that 'from the cessation of this nutriment, what has come into being is subject to cessation,' one practices for disenchantment with, for dispassion toward, for the cessation of what is subject to cessation. This is how one is a learner.
3 stages,
1st, seeing this has come into being.
2nd, it has come into being from this nutriment
3rd, cessation of that nutriment results in (1st) what has come into being is now subject to cessation

Sutta is similar to what you say above post in chapter headlines.

--
now the 'sense of self' what is part of bodies energetical system, there the nutriment is 'sense of self' you need cultivate it to get to the seat of a soul in bodies energetical system and face the Self. Here you need use mainly concentration and discernment to do precise things what give results immediately.
Here the more things in store. For an example UD Krishnamurti wrotes these kinds of things off hence there is no evidence of having energetical system results gotten insights in his talks.

i might evaluate wrong, which is a probability. I don't see convincing text what makes me not obnoxious. People like Krishnamurti, i don't hate him but lack of spirituality turns me off. Specially after having formed a sentence what is appealing to public he even doesn't hide his satisfaction from it.

PeterC86
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:06 pm

Re: Foundations of Human Life - A road to Nirvana for the West

Post by PeterC86 » Wed May 01, 2019 4:19 pm


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