Muscular Christianity

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Manopubbangama
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Muscular Christianity

Post by Manopubbangama » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm

I was brought up with Muscular Christians and still respect their ways.

Here is a definition of Muscular Christianity:
"The least of the muscular Christians has hold of the old chivalrous and Christian belief, that a man's body is given him to be trained and brought into subjection, and then used for the protection of the weak, the advancement of all righteous causes, and the subduing of the earth which God has given to the children of men."
I'm highlighting what I like the most.

I think there should be a Muscular Buddhist movement to counter all of the hippy, new age, gender-bender crap that has crept into burgeoning Western Buddhism.

I think this could bring about a bit of respectability and attract good people, instead of people that quite frankly are products of deinstitutionalization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation

Buddhism in the west attracts too many sexual predators, for example.

It should be made to be more austere and virile as exemplified by Mahasi Sayadaw.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:32 pm

Greetings,

That isn't much different to AN 4.115...
"Monks, there are these four courses of action. Which four? There is the course of action that is unpleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable. There is the course of action that is unpleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is profitable. There is the course of action that is pleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable. There is the course of action that is pleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is profitable.

"Now as for the course of action that is unpleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable, one considers it as not worth doing for both reasons: because the course of action is unpleasant to do, one considers it as not worth doing; and because the course of action, when done, leads to what is unprofitable, one considers it as not worth doing. Thus one considers it as not worth doing for both reasons.

"As for the course of action that is unpleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is profitable, it is in light of this course of action that one may be known — in terms of manly stamina, manly persistence, manly effort — as a fool or a wise person. For a fool doesn't reflect, 'Even though this course of action is unpleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is profitable.' So he doesn't do it, and thus the non-doing of that course of action leads to what is unprofitable for him. But a wise person reflects, 'Even though this course of action is unpleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is profitable.' So he does it, and thus the doing of that course of action leads to what is profitable for him.

"As for the course of action that is pleasant to do but that, when done, leads to what is unprofitable, it is in light of this course of action that one may be known — in terms of manly stamina, manly persistence, manly effort — as a fool or a wise person. For a fool doesn't reflect, 'Even though this course of action is pleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is unprofitable.' So he does it, and thus the doing of that course of action leads to what is unprofitable for him. But a wise person reflects, 'Even though this course of action is pleasant to do, still when it is done it leads to what is unprofitable.' So he doesn't do it, and thus the non-doing of that course of action leads to what is profitable for him.

"As for the course of action that is pleasant to do and that, when done, leads to what is profitable, one considers it as worth doing for both reasons: because the course of action is pleasant to do, one considers it as worth doing; and because the course of action, when done, leads to what is profitable, one considers it as worth doing. Thus one considers it as worth doing for both reasons.

"These are the four courses of action."
Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by JamesTheGiant » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:55 pm

Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm
.

I think there should be a Muscular Buddhist movement to counter all of the hippy, new age, gender-bender crap that has crept into burgeoning Western Buddhism..
Absolutely. When I got to a Western Monastery I was so pleased to see the monks shoveling concrete and getting dirty, and being practical under the monastery tractor changing an oil filter.

At the meditation centre i used to go to, all the guys were soft, useless, spiritual weenies.

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by JamesTheGiant » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:16 am

...Not that masculinity is all about being practical and physical and tough, but at the same time there's a belief that to be a meditator or "spiritual", a guy has to be not interested practical things, and has to be helpless, with soft hands and beads and no opinions.

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DooDoot
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by DooDoot » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:38 am

Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm
I was brought up with Muscular Christians and still respect their ways.
When I went to a Christian school, I once was reborn as a Muscular Arab Semitic Transvestite. If you have not seen the famous photo of this rebirth, currently circulating on the internet, it is below. I am not sure this Muscular Christianity was particularly helpful. That 17 year old 95kg muscular Transvestite could run 100 metres in 11 seconds and break 220 pound earthlings in half. But it didn't end dukkha. :shock:
Last edited by SDC on Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Obscene photo removed
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

santa100
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by santa100 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:51 am

Manopubbangama wrote:I think there should be a Muscular Buddhist movement to counter all of the hippy, new age, gender-bender crap that has crept into burgeoning Western Buddhism.
It's been there for hundreds of years. Nothing's more virile than a shaolin monk going beast mode... :tongue:

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DooDoot
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by DooDoot » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:57 am

Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm
I was brought up with Muscular Christians and still respect their ways.
Why? What did they achieve? If they were so tough, why were their institutions & society infiltrated & destroyed by Liberalism and Zionism and why is their only current significant effectiveness generating support for imperialist militarism and mass destruction & murder; which includes the murder of non-Western Orthodox Christians? :shrug:
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm
Here is a definition of Muscular Christianity:
"The least of the muscular Christians has hold of the old chivalrous and Christian belief, that a man's body is given him to be trained and brought into subjection, and then used for the protection of the weak, the advancement of all righteous causes, and the subduing of the earth which God has given to the children of men."
I have not read this in the Bible, apart from when Paul (Saul) referred to fighting the defilements and Maras:
The Need for Self-Discipline

24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand.

https://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-12.htm
:alien:
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm
Buddhism in the west attracts too many sexual predators, for example. It should be made to be more austere and virile as exemplified by Mahasi Sayadaw.
I thoroughly disagree with the above. The sexual looseness of Western Buddhism in my opinion is the direct of a lack of clear teachings by Asian monks such as Mahasi Sayadaw, Ajahn Buddhadasa, Ajahn Chah, etc. I wouldn't want to name the names of some of the foremost Western sexual predators who masqueraded as meditation teachers & disciples of each of the above Asian monks. The fact is these mass-market teachers did not want to scare Western hippies & wanderers away from their Asian institutions thus they were often not particularly thorough teaching about morality.
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm
I think there should be a Muscular Buddhist movement to counter all of the hippy, new age, gender-bender crap that has crept into burgeoning Western Buddhism.
My view is Western Buddhism was created by hippies. I think what has crept into burgeoning Western Buddhism is orthodoxy or conservatism. I am somewhere near this crowed of hippies (in a past rebirth). The fellow in the bottom right corner (hopefully) died & was reborn as this monk.
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There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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robertk
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by robertk » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:31 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:55 pm
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm
.

I think there should be a Muscular Buddhist movement to counter all of the hippy, new age, gender-bender crap that has crept into burgeoning Western Buddhism..
Absolutely. When I got to a Western Monastery I was so pleased to see the monks shoveling concrete and getting dirty, and being practical under the monastery tractor changing an oil filter.

At the meditation centre i used to go to, all the guys were soft, useless, spiritual weenies.
:rofl:

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Polar Bear
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by Polar Bear » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:56 am

In defense of the weenies, shoveling concrete is a waste of time. Better to sit under a tree.
On one occasion the Blessed One was staying among the Kosalans in a certain forest thicket. Now at that time the brahman Navakammika[1] Bharadvaja was getting some work done in that forest thicket. He saw the Blessed One sitting under a sala tree — his legs folded crosswise, his body held erect, with mindfulness set to the fore. On seeing him, the thought occurred to the brahman: "Here I am, taking delight in getting work done in this forest thicket. But what does this contemplative take delight in getting done?"

So he went to the Blessed One and on arrival recited this verse:


"What jobs are getting done,
monk in the sala forest?
Alone in the wilderness,
in what does Gotama
find delight?"

[The Buddha:]
I have no work
to do in the forest.
The forest of restless dancing about
I've cut
at the root.
Though in the forest, I'm
deforested,
de-arrowed.
I delight alone,
discontent cast away.


https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

SarathW
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by SarathW » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:03 am

I think Buddha taught the masculinity of the mind (Viriya) not the body.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by DooDoot » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:15 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:03 am
I think Buddha taught the masculinity of the mind (Viriya) not the body.
Wiki says:
Vīrya literally means "state of a strong man" or "manliness." In Vedic literature ;) , the term is often associated with heroism and virility. In Buddhism, the term more generally refers to a practitioner's "energy" or "exertion," and is repeatedly identified as a necessary prerequisite for achieving liberation :meditate: .
Btw. Do you think women have viriya when they endure the often difficult ordeal giving birth to children? Are women strong & heroic here? :shrug:
Then for nine or ten months the mother shelters the embryo in her womb with great anxiety, as a heavy burden. Then, at the end of nine or ten months, she gives birth with great anxiety, as a heavy burden. Then, when the child is born, she feeds it with her own blood — for mother's milk is called blood in the discipline of the noble ones.

MN 38
Last edited by DooDoot on Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

SarathW
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by SarathW » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:24 am

Elephants, buffalos etc more stronger than human.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by DooDoot » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:29 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:24 am
Elephants, buffalos etc more stronger than human.
Such do you think "Muscular Kamma" can lead to excellent rebirth as a elephant or buffalo, such as in the Dhammapada and Jataka Tales? :)
320. As an elephant in the battlefield withstands arrows shot from bows all around, even so shall I endure abuse.

321. A tamed elephant is led into a crowd, and the king mounts a tamed elephant.

322. Excellent are well-trained mules, thoroughbred Sindhu horses and noble tusker elephants.

:thumbsup: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .budd.html
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elephant-06.jpg (133.04 KiB) Viewed 458 times
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Manopubbangama
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by Manopubbangama » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:05 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:55 pm
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm
.

I think there should be a Muscular Buddhist movement to counter all of the hippy, new age, gender-bender crap that has crept into burgeoning Western Buddhism..
Absolutely. When I got to a Western Monastery I was so pleased to see the monks shoveling concrete and getting dirty, and being practical under the monastery tractor changing an oil filter.

At the meditation centre i used to go to, all the guys were soft, useless, spiritual weenies.
Very nice.

If men are truly not ejaculating they should become absolute beasts, both spirtually and even physically if they put that energy into fitness. :guns:

James, you are Kiwi; we know you guys are not sissies; I've seen the hakkha before.

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Manopubbangama
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Re: Muscular Christianity

Post by Manopubbangama » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:08 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:38 am
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:28 pm
I was brought up with Muscular Christians and still respect their ways.
When I went to a Christian school, I once was reborn as a Muscular Arab Semitic Transvestite. If you have not seen the famous photo of this rebirth, currently circulating on the internet, it is below. I am not sure this Muscular Christianity was particularly helpful. That 17 year old 95kg muscular Transvestite could run 100 metres in 11 seconds and break 220 pound earthlings in half. But it didn't end dukkha. :shock:
Yes, DooDoot, friend, I already know you are a transvestite; you sent me (unrequested) pics of yourself in drag.


I'm still trying very hard to unsee it. :meditate:

I don't know how you can overcome the interest in being a sheila, but I personally think we should not consider ourselves above the idea of psychiatric evaluation.

And I say that without any judgement at all.

I have no idea if your initial interest in Thailand was spawned by this or not, but I wouldn't recommend gender-reassignment surgery before seeing a shrink, imo.
Last edited by Manopubbangama on Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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