A zen approach to the mind

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Post Reply
alfa
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:43 pm
Location: India

A zen approach to the mind

Post by alfa »

Friends :smile:

This is about how zen views the mind - and how it compares with the theravada position.

In zen, the mind exists only through activity. Even if the body is still, the mind will try to be active in some form or the other. The mind will never be unoccupied. It will always try to be occupied with something. Because in zen, the moment the mind becomes inactive or unoccupied, it ceases to be mind. So fearing its own non-existence, the mind seeks to keep itself occupied.

This is why zen masters recommend just sitting in front of a wall, doing nothing, so as to see how the mind keeps indulging in some activity or the other. The objective is no-mind, which means all preoccupations of the mind should end.

How does this compare with the theravada position? I get the feeling zen uses just one word MIND to include everything - ignorance, craving, etc., whereas theravada is more detailed. But aside from that, I think in both schools it's all about cessation.

I'd like your insights on this.
SarathW
Posts: 21183
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: A zen approach to the mind

Post by SarathW »

According to Theravada consciousness ceases only when you are in Nirodha Samapatti or Sanna vedaniya Nirodha. (cessation of perception and feeling)
All other times you have the consciousness.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27839
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: A zen approach to the mind

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
SN 47.42 wrote:"From the origination of name-&-form is the origination of the mind. From the cessation of name-&-form is the cessation of the mind.
Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
Dan74-MkII
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:22 am

Re: A zen approach to the mind

Post by Dan74-MkII »

alfa wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:23 am Friends :smile:

This is about how zen views the mind - and how it compares with the theravada position.

In zen, the mind exists only through activity. Even if the body is still, the mind will try to be active in some form or the other. The mind will never be unoccupied. It will always try to be occupied with something. Because in zen, the moment the mind becomes inactive or unoccupied, it ceases to be mind. So fearing its own non-existence, the mind seeks to keep itself occupied.

This is why zen masters recommend just sitting in front of a wall, doing nothing, so as to see how the mind keeps indulging in some activity or the other. The objective is no-mind, which means all preoccupations of the mind should end.

How does this compare with the theravada position? I get the feeling zen uses just one word MIND to include everything - ignorance, craving, etc., whereas theravada is more detailed. But aside from that, I think in both schools it's all about cessation.

I'd like your insights on this.
Hi alpha :hello:

What do you base this formulation of "zen position" on?

To me it sounds not like "the zen position on mind" but perhaps one Zen teacher's motivating remarks on some of the reasons why we sit. I would avoid taking such remarks as 'a position on anything'.

It has some obvious sense to it, since if we commit to just sitting, our habitual clinging, fears and preoccupations have no little to latch on to and become a lot more visible.
befriend
Posts: 2283
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:39 am

Re: A zen approach to the mind

Post by befriend »

I've learned recently that when you apply mindfulness or awareness to a negative thought it weakens and when awareness is applied to a wholesome thought it is strengthened I find this true from personal practice. This is a type of right effort.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
User avatar
Manopubbangama
Posts: 925
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:17 pm
Location: Pennsylvania Route 969 *Europe*

Re: A zen approach to the mind

Post by Manopubbangama »

befriend wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:07 pm I've learned recently that when you apply mindfulness or awareness to a negative thought it weakens
This is the method taught by the Buddha. The Mahasi method, which derives from the Buddha can accomplish this.
sentinel
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: A zen approach to the mind

Post by sentinel »

SarathW wrote: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:15 am According to Theravada consciousness ceases only when you are in Nirodha Samapatti or Sanna vedaniya Nirodha. (cessation of perception and feeling)
All other times you have the consciousness.
It seems the consciousness didn't ceased to be but comes to a halt .
You always gain by giving
SarathW
Posts: 21183
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: A zen approach to the mind

Post by SarathW »

The word used in Sutta is Nirodha.
Which means cessation.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
sentinel
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: A zen approach to the mind

Post by sentinel »

SarathW wrote: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:31 pm The word used in Sutta is Nirodha.
Which means cessation.
Perception and feeling ceases not consciousness
You always gain by giving
form
Posts: 3471
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: A zen approach to the mind

Post by form »

It is very hard to define zen method, as its descriptions is beyond words. It is more like a freestyle demo in an interaction that has no fixed rules.
Post Reply