Virtues are the Connection

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Nicholas Weeks
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Virtues are the Connection

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Since some here seem to be puzzled, even irritated, that Connections to Other Paths are not clear conceptual matches. Perhaps if we look at the common moral virtues shared by humanity - religious humanity & non-religious humanity - it will become obvious.

The reasons & goals for ordinary civic virtues and superior spiritual virtues differ between Xtians, Buddhists, Hindus and Jews, for example. Yet the expression of good actions, thoughts and words are similar if not identical.

The better way to understand the Connections is not intellectually or conceptually, but by seeing the simple commonality of kindly or calm or joyous behaviors (for example) in any other person.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

Post by Sam Vara »

Will wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:40 pm Since some here seem to be puzzled, even irritated, that Connections to Other Paths are not clear conceptual matches. Perhaps if we look at the common moral virtues shared by humanity - religious humanity & non-religious humanity - it will become obvious.

The reasons & goals for ordinary civic virtues and superior spiritual virtues differ between Xtians, Buddhists, Hindus and Jews, for example. Yet the expression of good actions, thoughts and words are similar if not identical.

The better way to understand the Connections is not intellectually or conceptually, but by seeing the simple commonality of kindly or calm or joyous behaviors (for example) in any other person.
I take your point, but if we see commonality, similarity, and sharing, etc., then we are already using the intellect or concepts, even if we don't make that explicit to ourselves or others. It would be really helpful if people posting about other paths could make the connection with Theravada apparent. Clarity avoids misunderstandings.
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Sam,

Clarity is why I am writing on this thread.

Is it clear that no intellect is needed to meet a non-Buddhist person and see their kindness or temperate or happy characteristics?

Thus focusing on the moral foundations of any Path will reveal ethical Connections with Theravada.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

Post by Sam Vara »

Will wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:08 pm Sam,

Clarity is why I am writing on this thread.

Is it clear that no intellect is needed to meet a non-Buddhist person and see their kindness or temperate or happy characteristics?

Thus focusing on the moral foundations of any Path will reveal ethical Connections with Theravada.
To me, it's not clear that no intellect is needed in such a case, but I see intellect as the mental faculty by which we can make comparisons and subsume phenomena under general headings, and I don't particularly want to get into a debate about semantics here. The more pragmatic point is whether people can indeed see the connections between Theravada and another path if that path is merely set out here, without benefit even of point-by-point juxtaposition and elucidation.

I don't think focusing on the moral foundations of any path will necessarily reveal ethical connections with Theravada. It might do; but it might not. Some things which might be considered "paths" might have very different moral requirements from Theravadan training. Hence the requirement to demonstrate any connection that is there.
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

Post by SarathW »

but by seeing the simple commonality of kindly or calm or joyous behaviors (for example) in any other person.
According to Buddhist teaching, there is wrong Pithy and Sukha and equanimity.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

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Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:16 pm
Will wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:08 pm Sam,

Clarity is why I am writing on this thread.

Is it clear that no intellect is needed to meet a non-Buddhist person and see their kindness or temperate or happy characteristics?

Thus focusing on the moral foundations of any Path will reveal ethical Connections with Theravada.
To me, it's not clear that no intellect is needed in such a case, but I see intellect as the mental faculty by which we can make comparisons and subsume phenomena under general headings, and I don't particularly want to get into a debate about semantics here. The more pragmatic point is whether people can indeed see the connections between Theravada and another path if that path is merely set out here, without benefit even of point-by-point juxtaposition and elucidation.

I don't think focusing on the moral foundations of any path will necessarily reveal ethical connections with Theravada. It might do; but it might not. Some things which might be considered "paths" might have very different moral requirements from Theravadan training. Hence the requirement to demonstrate any connection that is there.
You overthink Sam. The Connection is simply & only the existence of any virtue, irrespective of differing "reasons & goals" related to that Path.

If a Theravadin does not wish to or cannot have empathy with a person on a Path which values & practices no killing, no stealing, no sexual misconduct, kindness, equanimity etc. that is a focused approach that many require or prefer. So be it.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

Post by Sam Vara »

Will wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:01 pm
You overthink Sam. The Connection is simply & only the existence of any virtue
Courage in battle, then?
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Will, I think that the point is that it is useful to briefly state what the connection is, not that a huge essary is required! Similarly, when members post quotes (even sutta quotes) it is helpful to explain what point is being made.

:heart:
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

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mikenz66 wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:07 pm Hi Will, I think that the point is that it is useful to briefly state what the connection is, not that a huge essary is required! Similarly, when members post quotes (even sutta quotes) it is helpful to explain what point is being made.

:heart:
Mike
I have stated what the Connection is - the existence & practice of any virtue. That applies to any & all posts by me in this thread and I think it is a template for any reader to use. I see no reason to repeat that for every post. Independent thought is available to all.

It is patently clear that all Paths have this same basis of right conduct in body, speech and mind. The emphasis, purpose etc. differ. That does not matter if one wants to have self-control & equanimity, if not friendliness.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:06 pm
Will wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:01 pm
You overthink Sam. The Connection is simply & only the existence of any virtue
Courage in battle, then?
When battling personal afflictions, you bet.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

Post by Sam Vara »

Will wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:20 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:06 pm
Will wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:01 pm
You overthink Sam. The Connection is simply & only the existence of any virtue
Courage in battle, then?
When battling personal afflictions, you bet.
But not when physically battling others and killing them because they have annoyed you or your clan. Because these things are also claimed as virtues.
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Re: Virtues are the Connection

Post by mikenz66 »

Will wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:18 pm
mikenz66 wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:07 pm Hi Will, I think that the point is that it is useful to briefly state what the connection is, not that a huge essary is required! Similarly, when members post quotes (even sutta quotes) it is helpful to explain what point is being made.

:heart:
Mike
I have stated what the Connection is - the existence & practice of any virtue. That applies to any & all posts by me in this thread and I think it is a template for any reader to use. I see no reason to repeat that for every post. Independent thought is available to all.

It is patently clear that all Paths have this same basis of right conduct in body, speech and mind. The emphasis, purpose etc. differ. That does not matter if one wants to have self-control & equanimity, if not friendliness.
I wasn't talking about this thread, I was speaking generally about quotations.

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Re: Virtues are the Connection

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Will,
Will wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:18 pm I have stated what the Connection is - the existence & practice of any virtue. That applies to any & all posts by me in this thread and I think it is a template for any reader to use. I see no reason to repeat that for every post.
Not for every post, but for every opening post, yes.

Each topic is a self-contained discussion, and no standalone, omnibus "disclaimer topic" such as this one here provides an exemption from that simple requirement.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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