Signs of Kali Yuga

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by chownah » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:28 pm

markandeya wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:05 pm
chownah wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:54 pm
I keep scanning the posts here wanting to find out how this is connected to theravada buddhism but so far I'm not finding it.
chownah
Hi Chownah its in the forum for Connections to Other Paths,

Its in the right place
I'm not questioning the placement of this thread....I'm wondering what the connection is with theravda buddhism.....
chownah

markandeya
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:33 am

Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:36 pm

chownah wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:28 pm
markandeya wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:05 pm
chownah wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:54 pm
I keep scanning the posts here wanting to find out how this is connected to theravada buddhism but so far I'm not finding it.
chownah
Hi Chownah its in the forum for Connections to Other Paths,

Its in the right place
I'm not questioning the placement of this thread....I'm wondering what the connection is with theravda buddhism.....
chownah
Maybe you havent had enough good exposure to other ways of life that integrate. For me I havent spoke outside of thervada context, just because some words may differ doesnt mean that reality has changed in anyway. Its easy to get stuck in words and literal definitions, not so easy to break them down when words are taken overly serious or given absolute definitions without any amount of investigation and reflection. In my experience these people usually come from either Christian backgrounds where the word was ultimate or they read to much and tend to think everything needs to be reduced into a single context, or they overly attached to materialistic empirical science, which in most cases in modern times people seem to get stuck and their growth doesnt only stop but they start going backwards.

The way education is now and previous cultural conditioning first needs to be addressed and reflected upon and certain amounts of practice to overcome these hurdles, then the dharma can be studied as a practice in life and as subject if that interests them. Materialists are making harder and harder for people to gain or maintain natural insights.

:anjali:

Saengnapha
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by Saengnapha » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:05 pm

markandeya wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:36 pm
chownah wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:28 pm
markandeya wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:05 pm


Hi Chownah its in the forum for Connections to Other Paths,

Its in the right place
I'm not questioning the placement of this thread....I'm wondering what the connection is with theravda buddhism.....
chownah
Maybe you havent had enough good exposure to other ways of life that integrate. For me I havent spoke outside of thervada context, just because some words may differ doesnt mean that reality has changed in anyway. Its easy to get stuck in words and literal definitions, not so easy to break them down when words are taken overly serious or given absolute definitions without any amount of investigation and reflection. In my experience these people usually come from either Christian backgrounds where the word was ultimate or they read to much and tend to think everything needs to be reduced into a single context, or they overly attached to materialistic empirical science, which in most cases in modern times people seem to get stuck and their growth doesnt only stop but they start going backwards.

The way education is now and previous cultural conditioning first needs to be addressed and reflected upon and certain amounts of practice to overcome these hurdles, then the dharma can be studied as a practice in life and as subject if that interests them. Materialists are making harder and harder for people to gain or maintain natural insights.

:anjali:
Markandeya, Connections to Other Paths could also be made into a question, Is there any connection that Theravada has to other paths? Or vice versa. Most of the posters here seem convinced that Theravada is the ONLY true path, especially with the context of Buddhist paths like Vajrayana, Zen, etc. To admit a connection to Indian paths is sort of an admission that their view is faulty and 'wrong'. I haven't figured out why this thread even exists here because very few people will bother to discuss open mindedly, about Ultimate Truth or any kind of universal insight unless it has been sanctioned by the Buddha. This is the degenerative work of religious orthodoxy and organizations, just like the Vatican, that have suppressed and changed meanings to suit their own positions of power and call it heresy. When conditions for heresy exist, you can't have a conversation about anything other than orthodoxy. Then things become a scholarly pursuit, talking in concepts, hopes, and beliefs. Nothing radical can take place like real insight which has to be universal and not sectarian.

markandeya
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:33 am

Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:44 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:05 pm
markandeya wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:36 pm
chownah wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:28 pm

I'm not questioning the placement of this thread....I'm wondering what the connection is with theravda buddhism.....
chownah
Maybe you havent had enough good exposure to other ways of life that integrate. For me I havent spoke outside of thervada context, just because some words may differ doesnt mean that reality has changed in anyway. Its easy to get stuck in words and literal definitions, not so easy to break them down when words are taken overly serious or given absolute definitions without any amount of investigation and reflection. In my experience these people usually come from either Christian backgrounds where the word was ultimate or they read to much and tend to think everything needs to be reduced into a single context, or they overly attached to materialistic empirical science, which in most cases in modern times people seem to get stuck and their growth doesnt only stop but they start going backwards.

The way education is now and previous cultural conditioning first needs to be addressed and reflected upon and certain amounts of practice to overcome these hurdles, then the dharma can be studied as a practice in life and as subject if that interests them. Materialists are making harder and harder for people to gain or maintain natural insights.

:anjali:
Markandeya, Connections to Other Paths could also be made into a question, Is there any connection that Theravada has to other paths? Or vice versa. Most of the posters here seem convinced that Theravada is the ONLY true path, especially with the context of Buddhist paths like Vajrayana, Zen, etc. To admit a connection to Indian paths is sort of an admission that their view is faulty and 'wrong'. I haven't figured out why this thread even exists here because very few people will bother to discuss open mindedly, about Ultimate Truth or any kind of universal insight unless it has been sanctioned by the Buddha. This is the degenerative work of religious orthodoxy and organizations, just like the Vatican, that have suppressed and changed meanings to suit their own positions of power and call it heresy. When conditions for heresy exist, you can't have a conversation about anything other than orthodoxy. Then things become a scholarly pursuit, talking in concepts, hopes, and beliefs. Nothing radical can take place like real insight which has to be universal and not sectarian.
Indeed, there is no threat to anyone or any tradition due to dharma being at its root universal and applicable to us all, it exists even if we are not aware of it, the practices are only there to help us reach that awareness.

its a unified understanding not a total homogeneous one, its something that gets realised by our self. Translating one culture to another is always difficult especially if its done by carbon copying or trying to overly mold something to fit a previous model, that in itself defies the nature of Dharma. There are differences externally between Zen, Vrajayana and Theravada, but these are only on the surface, it shouldn't be taken to literally, if something isnt understood just put it on the shelf, it may come back later as something very useful.

The main thing I like about Buddhism is that by its own nature it integrates with the existing culture. Maybe its just a time issue. Seeds are planted and now its just about water the seed and patiently waiting for it to blossom. Its supposed to be a path of no extremes, we need something simliar to nalanda but secular education and conditioning takes away natural investigation and personal insights, hinduism has more difficulties to integrate than Buddhism in the west. Buddhism is way better than neo advaita, due to less self affirmation in the practice.

In years to come the west should have its own unique form of Buddhism because in each time setting the conditions are unique and the mental ideas of people are unique in place to place. .

i was listening to Stephen Batchelor the other day, I really admire him for what he tries to do and he is very misunderstood as being a secular Buddhist, when the real meaning of what he is saying is that its Buddhism in a secular society, there is a huge difference. No self and reincarnation are foreign ideas to a culture that depended and was forced into thinking of an one life doctrine and being saved by someone else and having to wait until death to reap the fruits of practice or get liberation, so many times people start to first evaluate the belief structure and see if it fits into a logical view, when neither have any limitation to belief and view. Thinking less is given very little credit even if its becoming obvious that thought itself is the real the problem.



Its good and recommended to stick to one path to start but not become sectarian or ignorant of what others say or practice.

Kali Yuga :broke:

chownah
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by chownah » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:22 am

markandeya wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:36 pm
chownah wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:28 pm
markandeya wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:05 pm


Hi Chownah its in the forum for Connections to Other Paths,

Its in the right place
I'm not questioning the placement of this thread....I'm wondering what the connection is with theravda buddhism.....
chownah
Maybe you havent had enough good exposure to other ways of life that integrate.
It seems that since I would like to learn of how this thread connects with theravada that I have lead a somewhat isolated life. If I have not had enough good exposure then I am giving you the opportunity right here in this thread to give me some exposure to the way that kali yuga connects with theravada thought.

I think it is entirely appropriate for me to ask for an explanation of the connection because the first sentence in the explanation of the purpose of the Connections subforum says "Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths." How can I explore these connections if they are not mentioned.....how can I even know if there is a connection unless there is some evidence which supports that there is a connection. So far I have seen nothing which shows that connection. Seems like it would be easy to do....I'm wondering why the connection is not even mentioned.....unless the connection is somewhat obscure or difficult to explain.

It really seems like the discussion so far is prosletyzing for belief in kali yuga without any connection to theravada....but that is perhaps just a function of me not seeing the connection.....that is why I am asking what the connection is.
chownah

markandeya
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:20 am

Mostly chownah its due to poor translations, which was motivated and biased and had an agenda, tell a lie long enough or if people dont have right information or right cultural basis then they can only accept what they teach literally from a foreign perspective, bolster that with modern education systems of learning and he presto the lie becomes real.

As I have posted in the posted in pervious entries kali yuga is not a linear timeline

and kāma-loka , “the world of feeling in abhidharma is sense consciousness, maybe you can tell us what is the results per pali dhamma on what is the result of sense consciousness

Kali Yuga's sense consciousness

Some extracts from the suttas

Brahman in Early Buddhism

It has been asserted by current secular Buddhism, that Buddhism knows only of the gods (Brahma) and nothing of the Godhead/Absolute/Agathon Brahman. In actuality there can be doubt that in the grammatically ambiguous _expression Brahmabhu’to (attano) which describes the condition of those who are wholly liberated, that it is Brahman (the Absolute) and not Brahma (deva, or mere god) that is in the text and must be read; for it is by Brahman that one who is “wholly awake” has ”become.”

As "Brahma-vihara" means to dwell in Brahman, "Brahma-patha" are the four paths towards achieving it.[19]

The highest appellation in Buddhist Nikayan sutra is “Brahambhutena attano” [MN 1.341] “The Soul is having become Brahman”; absolutely equivalent to ‘Tat tvam asi’ (That/Brahman, thou art). For the Buddha himself is = Brahmabhu’to (Become That, Brahman). For (1) the comparatively limited knowledge of a Brahma is repeatedly emphasized, and (2) Brahmas are accordingly the Buddhas pupils, not he theirs [ S 1.141-145; Mil 75-76], (3) The Buddha had already been in previous births a Brahma (god) and a Mahabrahma [AN 4.88] hence it is meaningless and absurd in the equation to say Brahmabhu’to=Buddho [AN 5.22; DN 3.84; It 57 etc.], to assume that Brahman= Brahma (god) and that (4) the Buddha is explicitly “much more than a Mahabrahma" [DhA 2.60].

[DN 3.84] "The Tathagata means 'the body of Brahman', 'become Brahman'." (this passage also proves [from earlier context] that Brahma (god/s) is utterly different than the word Brahman).

[DN 1.249] “ I teach the way to the union with Brahman, I know the way to the supreme union with Brahman, and the path and means leading to Brahman, whereby the world of Brahman may be gained.”

[DN 1.248] ”all the peoples say that Gotama is the supreme teacher of the way leading to the Union with Brahman!”

[3.646 Pat-Att.] “To have become Brahman [is the meaning of] Brahmabhuto.”

[Atthakanipata-Att. 5.72] “To become Brahman is to become highest Svabhava (Self-nature).”

[It 57] “Become-Brahman is the meaning of Tathagata.”

[SN 3.83] “Without taints, it meant ‘Become-Brahman’.”

[SN 5.5] “The Arya Eightfold Path is the designation for Brahmayana (path to Brahman).”

[MN 1.341] “The Soul is having become Brahman.”

[SN 4.117] "Found the ancient path leading to Brahman."

[Majjhima ii, 199] "These alone could conduce to the attainment of the Brahma-sahavyata or the attainment of the world of Brahman."

In the text Lalitavistara (a Northern Buddhistic text), it is written that the Buddha prayed to Parabrahma.[20]

In the Surangama Sutra it reads[21]: Adoration to the heavenly Devas and Rishis,-accomplished
and disciplined executors of this Dharani-
Adoration to Brahman, to Indra, to the Blessed Rudra,
and to their consorts, Indrani and Sahai.
Adoration to Narayana, Lord of this world, Lord of the
five great Mudras, and to his consort.

It is said in the that the Tathagata is not merely an incorporation of Dhamma but also of the Brahman, he has become not only the Dhamma, but also the Brahman.[22]

"In another passage we read that the 'vehicle that leads to the brahman' (brahmayana) i.e. to Nirvana has its origin in ourselves (attani sambuutam):"[23]

A Brahma-kshetra is a name for a Buddhist monastery.[24]

The Buddha is also called Brahma-patta (skt. Brahma Prapta.[25]).

Buddha talked of "Brahmavihara" as the stage of enlightenment.[26]

The Buddha was also called in texts as "Brahmaprapta" or Individual who has become One with Brahman.[27]

Bhagavad Gita

Bhagavada Gita 5.24

yo ’ntaḥ-sukho ’ntar-ārāmas
tathāntar-jyotir eva yaḥ
sa yogī brahma-nirvāṇaṁ
brahma-bhūto ’dhigacchati

Translation:
One whose happiness is within, who is active and rejoices within, and whose aim is inward is actually the perfect mystic. He is liberated in the Supreme, and ultimately he attains the Supreme.

If you go by translations, and most are poor ones (at that) you will only have confusion.

Buddha refereed to himself at Tathāgata

Tat~ Upanishads term for brahman
āgata is two compounds together meaning this gone and and suchness a teem gata and āgata, meaning all pervasive~viṣṇu

āgata also means having arriving at

shiva means auspicious

it was an one one the epithets Buddha used for nirvāṇa

ni ~ transcedendant to

vāṇa~ guna based identity

Upasīva

U is another term to Brahman or transcendence uttara~world transcending

upa means near to or close to


sīva~auspicioious~Brahma, one of the epithet that Gotama used for nirvāṇa, The Island Ajahn Amaro and Ajhan pasanno

As a flame overthrown by the force of the wind, Upasīva,” said the Gracious One,
“goes to rest and can no longer be discerned,
just so the Sage free from the mental body
goes to rest and can no longer be discerned.”

“The one who has come to rest, is he then nothing?” said venerable Upasīva,
“or is he actually eternally healthy?
Please explain this to me, O Sage,
for this Teaching has been understood by you.”

“There is no measure of the one who has come to rest, Upasīva,” said the Gracious One,
“there is nothing by which they can speak of him,
when everything has been completely removed,
all the pathways for speech are also completely removed.”

sutta nipāta 5.7

the way to the beyond


This Lotus-eyed One (puṇḍarīka) is viṣṇu or śiva. Puṇḍarīka is a lotus-flower, esp. a white lotus expressive of beauty; and we know 'eyed' is akṣa. So Pundarīkākśa the white-lotus (puṇḍarīka) + eyed (akṣa अक्ष) is the puṇḍa पुण्ड , the mark or a sign of viṣṇu or śiva

:anjali:

markandeya
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:38 am

I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.
नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

:anjali:

Saengnapha
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by Saengnapha » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:01 am

markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:38 am
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.
नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

:anjali:
The origins of Buddhism are clearly tied to Vedanta as Christianity is clearly tied to Judaism. The Buddha's realization was of the ineffable, which was called Brahman in those days, by the culture that Gotama lived in. It is not surprising that Nibbana, a Pali word, would come to be associated with Buddha's realization as his teachings migrated southwards. If Nibbana and Brahman are the ineffable, they must be the same, just a different language or nuance. To turn it into an unrelated path seems the work of politics, not realization. Even within different Buddhist schools, Nibbana is argued, but they are not unrelated.

Even in the thread I started regarding U.G. and J. Krishnamurti, both had been heavily exposed to Vedanta and thereby related to Buddhism in the many topics they discussed. The nearly total disregard that we see here of people either not seeing the connection or not able to distinguish that which is universal and ineffable which appears in all these connections. People are blinded by sectarian issues that divide, not unite.

markandeya
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:15 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:01 am
markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:38 am
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.
नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः

:anjali:
The origins of Buddhism are clearly tied to Vedanta as Christianity is clearly tied to Judaism. The Buddha's realization was of the ineffable, which was called Brahman in those days, by the culture that Gotama lived in. It is not surprising that Nibbana, a Pali word, would come to be associated with Buddha's realization as his teachings migrated southwards. If Nibbana and Brahman are the ineffable, they must be the same, just a different language or nuance. To turn it into an unrelated path seems the work of politics, not realization. Even within different Buddhist schools, Nibbana is argued, but they are not unrelated.

Even in the thread I started regarding U.G. and J. Krishnamurti, both had been heavily exposed to Vedanta and thereby related to Buddhism in the many topics they discussed. The nearly total disregard that we see here of people either not seeing the connection or not able to distinguish that which is universal and ineffable which appears in all these connections. People are blinded by sectarian issues that divide, not unite.
:goodpost:

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Sam Vara
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:45 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:01 am
If Nibbana and Brahman are the ineffable, they must be the same, just a different language or nuance.
This, I'm afraid, does not stand as a valid argument. It needs another premise if it is to escape from being invalid or merely tautological. The premise needs to be something along the lines of "Everything that has been labelled as 'the ineffable' is the same thing". And that, of course, needs establishing. Ineffability is just a label which can be applied to anything which the user thinks is beyond expression.

And, of course, we don't know whether the terms originally used to attribute ineffability to nibbana and to Brahman are even the same terms.

markandeya
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:53 am

HI Sam
And, of course, we don't know whether the terms originally used to attribute ineffability to nibbana and to Brahman are even the same terms.
Who is exactly are the "WE" that you are referring to, and whats their or your criteria for becoming authorities on this, and whats your method of analysis and verification.

In Sanskrit brahman is nirguna ni meaning without and guna quality of conditioned nature so brahman is without the quality of conditioned nature of the gunas, sattva, rajas and tamas

nirvana is same as nirguna or without the qualities associated with material nature of the qualities born of birth. so nirvana nirguna Synonymous with Brahman and both are in the same context of ineffable.

If mind has qualities of superimposition of guna and varna then ni and brahman are ineffable.

:anjali:

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DooDoot
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by DooDoot » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:22 pm

markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:20 am
[MN 1.341] “The Soul is having become Brahman.”
MN 1.341 is here: https://suttacentral.net/mn51/en/sujato. https://suttacentral.net/mn51/pli/ms please find the quote.
markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:20 am
[SN 4.117] "Found the ancient path leading to Brahman."
Funny posts. SN 4.117 is not about heartwood Buddhism but the non-Nibbana-non-anatta the Buddha often taught Brahmans.

Note, unlike you, the Buddha taught Brahmanism to Brahmins (unless they were capable of enlightenment). Unlike you, the Buddha did not seek to impose his Dhamma upon those it was not suitable for. :roll: :?

The Buddha was wise. The Buddha behaves appropriately according to other cultures, societies & individuals.
At one time Venerable Mahākaccāna was staying in the land of the Avantis in a wilderness hut near Makkarakaṭa. Then several youths, students of the brahmin Lohicca, approached Mahākaccāna’s wilderness hut while collecting firewood. They walked and wandered all around the hut, making a dreadful racket and all kinds of jeers. “These shavelings, fake ascetics, riffraff, black spawn from the feet of our Kinsman, the Lord! They’re honored, respected, esteemed, revered, and venerated by those who pretend to inherit Vedic culture.”

And then Mahākaccāna came out of his dwelling and said to those brahmin students:

“Students, stop being so noisy.

I will speak to you on the teaching.”

When this was said, the students fell silent.

Then Mahākaccāna recited these verses for them.

“The brahmins of old excelled in ethics,

and remembered the ancient traditions.

Their sense doors were guarded, well protected,

and they had mastered anger.

Those brahmins who remembered the ancient traditions

enjoyed virtue and absorption.

But these have lost their way. Claiming to recite,

they live out of balance, judging everyone by their clan.

Mastered by anger, they take up many arms,

attacking both the strong and the weak.

All is vain for someone who doesn’t guard the sense doors,

like the wealth a person finds in a dream.

Fasting, sleeping on bare ground,

bathing at dawn, the three Vedas,

rough hides, dreadlocks, and dirt,

hymns, precepts and observances, and self-mortification,

those fake bent staffs,

and rinsing with water.

These emblems of the brahmins

are only used to generate profits.

A mind that’s serene,

clear and undisturbed,

kind to all creatures:

that’s the path to attainment of Brahmā!”

:alien:
markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:53 am
nirvana is same as nirguna
Buddhist Nirvana is defined as the utter destruction & uprooting of all greed, hatred & delusional self-views.
Last edited by DooDoot on Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

markandeya
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:27 pm

I admit some of it is poorly translated, but its much better effort than some of the earlier translations.

Can you translate pali or sanskrit, my sanskrit is improving so I would be more interested to compare translations that way.

let me read through the suttas and do some research at sutta central and other sources and see if we can get a clearer picture.

:anjali:

markandeya
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:33 pm

Doodoot

You seem to have a good brain for study, or maybe your just relying on google andcopying pasting to do the thinking for you.

But I would suggest that some study in etymology and the original language will help and spending time with people who are fluent in the meaning.
markandeya wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:53 am
nirvana is same as nirguna
Buddhist Nirvana is defined as the utter destruction & uprooting of all greed, hatred & delusional self-views
nirvana as I have said is a compound word ni meaning without or transcendent to and varna as conditioned phenomenon. bUt yes it does destroy greed, hatred and ignorance and thats why many of the translations cant be taken seriously because they are written with a certain amount of influence of one of the 3 or more and not by realized Buddhists.

if you can find me any evidence in pre 10th century India of the sutras and texts being studying as your doing please tell me, because I have found any.

the last long quote you gave on dreadlocks and so on is quite laughable, as even though naga sadhu and others ascetics in renounced orders do have dreadlocks there is not actually native word in India for dreadlocks. So that translations is really part of the cultural ignorance and make me even more skeptic.

:anjali:
Last edited by markandeya on Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DooDoot
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by DooDoot » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:33 pm

markandeya wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:27 pm
I admit some of it is poorly translated, but its much better effort than some of the earlier translations.

Can you translate pali or sanskrit, my sanskrit is improving so I would be more interested to compare translations that way.

let me read through the suttas and do some research at sutta central and other sources and see if we can get a clearer picture.
Most of us don't need a clearer picture. As I posted, the Buddha & his monks often deliberately avoided teaching their true dhamma to outsiders (but did teach outsiders alternate teachings). That is why there is so much debate within Buddhism about the teachings because the suttas contain a mixture of teachings for different audiences. There are two types of teachings in Buddhism:

(i) lokiya - worldly/mundane &

(ii) lokuttara - supramundane/beyond the world

Its important to not mix these up. Often the teachings to Brahmans by Buddha are lokiya. In addition, the Buddha often took Brahmin terms, include the word 'Brahmana', and redefined them.

Regards

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