Well doodoot you have suprised me, we may even start to agree on somethingDooDoot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:33 pmMost of us don't need a clearer picture. As I posted, the Buddha & his monks often deliberately avoided teaching their true dhamma to outsiders (but did teach outsiders alternate teachings). That is why there is so much debate within Buddhism about the teachings because the suttas contain a mixture of teachings for different audiences. There are two types of teachings in Buddhism:markandeya wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:27 pm I admit some of it is poorly translated, but its much better effort than some of the earlier translations.
Can you translate pali or sanskrit, my sanskrit is improving so I would be more interested to compare translations that way.
let me read through the suttas and do some research at sutta central and other sources and see if we can get a clearer picture.
(i) lokiya - worldly/mundane &
(ii) lokuttara - supramundane/beyond the world
Its important to not mix these up. Often the teachings to Brahmans by Buddha are lokiya. In addition, the Buddha often took Brahmin terms, include the word 'Brahmana', and redefined them.
Regards
Its exactly right what you say, well almost apart from the last sentence of redefining braminical terms. I pretty sure this is the work of poor translations and sorry to say something more cinister, like enforcing class system of natural varnashram dharma.
But I wouldn't say deliberately teaching something and alternate teachings to outsiders, they may have given them what they needed to know and not more, as they would be teaching them or guiding them deeper into the dharma from where the stood not as a belief system. But there is definitely two parts to teachings rupa dharma and arupa dharma, there maybe a better way to say it. If one has not had any experience of arupa jhana then certain parts of ones consciousness is not yet developed, so no need to teach anything abstract. Its not a teaching of one size fits all.