Signs of Kali Yuga

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Will
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Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by Will » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:55 pm

This world has cycles of degeneration as well as Golden Ages. It is plain we are now not in a Golden Age as Plato called it. Here is a little list from the Indian tradition, giving the vice-ridden character that is growing in power over many. Kali Yuga began roughly 5000 years ago & is supposed to last for more than 400,000 years more.

https://mailchi.mp/exoticindia/hindu-te ... 1e463501ce
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by DNS » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:23 am

Most of the things on that list have come true. For example:
1). People will not think twice before cutting down trees or destroying groves.
3). Even though having the outward appearance of saints, people will indulge in trade and commercial activity.
4). During Kaliyuga a man will be friends only with his wife.
In this socially isolated times, many men do only make friends with their wife.
21). Because of the shortage of cows, people will resort to drinking goat and sheep-milk.
This one has not happened and it is not likely that it will happen due to factory farming, breeding of livestock, etc.
53). The highest purpose of life will be to fill one's belly.
:D Looks to be fairly accurate, with a huge rise in obesity in the developed world.
57). Houses will be desolate because of the lack of chanting of Vedas and absence of guests.
Again, perhaps due to social isolation, social media, etc, this appears to be true too.

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by Meezer77 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:54 am

Is Kali Yuga mentioned in the Suttas or only in Hindu scriptures? I remember an ISKCON guru telling me that when it gets really bad people will start eating their kids. Lovely thought 😊

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by Meezer77 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:48 pm

I just remembered what he actually said was that couples would procreate purely for the purpose of being able to eat the child once it was born. But isn’t 9 months a long time to wait for your dinner? 🤔

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by Will » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:45 pm

Meezer77 wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:54 am
Is Kali Yuga mentioned in the Suttas or only in Hindu scriptures?
Probably only in Indian texts; Buddhism & Jainism use a repeating series of four kappas (kalpas). But the time span differs from the Yugas.
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:10 pm

Meezer77 wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:54 am
Is Kali Yuga mentioned in the Suttas or only in Hindu scriptures? I remember an ISKCON guru telling me that when it gets really bad people will start eating their kids. Lovely thought 😊
The Wheel-turning Emperor (Excerpt)
Cakkavatti Sutta (DN 26)

Introduction
The body of this sutta consists of a narrative illustrating the power of skillful action. The narrative states that, in the past, unskillful behavior was unknown among the human race. As a result, people lived for an immensely long time—80,000 years—endowed with great beauty, wealth, pleasure, and strength. Over the course of time, though, they began behaving in various unskillful ways. This caused the human life span gradually to shorten, to the point where it now stands at 100 years, with human beauty, wealth, pleasure, and strength decreasing proportionately. In the future, as morality continues to degenerate, human life will continue to shorten to the point were the normal life span is ten years, with people reaching sexual maturity at five. “Among those human beings, the ten courses of action (see AN 10:176) will have entirely disappeared.… The word ‘skillful‘ will not exist, so from where will there be anyone who does what is skillful? Those who lack the honorable qualities of motherhood, fatherhood, contemplative-hood, & brahman-hood will be the ones who receive homage.… Fierce hatred will arise, fierce malevolence, fierce rage, & murderous thoughts: mother for child, child for mother, father for child, child for father, brother for sister, sister for brother.”

Ultimately, conditions will deteriorate to the point of a “sword-interval,” in which swords appear in the hands of all human beings, and they hunt one another like game. A few people, however, will take shelter in the wilderness to escape the carnage, and when the slaughter is over, they will come out of hiding and resolve to take up a life of skillful and virtuous action again. With the recovery of virtue, the human life span will gradually increase again until it reaches 80,000 years, with people attaining sexual maturity at 500. Only three diseases will be known at that time: desire, lack of food, and old age. Another Buddha—Metteyya (Maitreya)—will gain awakening, his monastic Saṅgha numbering in the thousands. The greatest king of the time, Saṅkha, will go forth into homelessness and attain arahantship under Metteyya’s guidance.

The story, after chronicling the ups and downs of human wealth, life span, etc., concludes with the following lesson on kamma and skillful action.

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN26.html

:anjali:
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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:24 pm

Harih Om

i wouldnt take ISKCONS popular Americanized version to seriously, the books and teachings have been edited to mch in a sinister way. The singing, prasadam ( delicious vegetarina food ) is great though, and the good devotees utter determination and devotion.

the yugas have very little to do with linear time, this is bad translations made up by imperial scholars initially to cause division and contempt in society.

Kali Yuga~ Sense consciousness, which includes mind and five senses seeking gratification outwards, world of uncertainty and instability often leading to degradation and disruption.

Dwarpa yuga~ Mind turned inwards, first stage of refuge in dharma and the 4 jhanas

Treta Yuga~ intermediate stage unified field of consciousness~wisdom and dharma, arupa jhana~mahayana

Satya~ Turiya~ Transcendence.

Depending on the state of ones being will decide which yuga they are in.

:anjali:

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by Will » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:38 pm

The yugas as presented in the Bhagavatam, for example, give specific numbers of years for each of the four. So while an time-less psychological interpretation is possible, blaming bad translations & bad motives of same, is too speculative for me.

Here is a detailed look at the subject from the Greek tradition, who had their own notion of degeneration of humanity over time:

http://www.maicar.com/GML/AgesOfWorld.html
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:05 pm

Will wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:38 pm
The yugas as presented in the Bhagavatam, for example, give specific numbers of years for each of the four. So while an time-less psychological interpretation is possible, blaming bad translations & bad motives of same, is too speculative for me.

Here is a detailed look at the subject from the Greek tradition, who had their own notion of degeneration of humanity over time:

http://www.maicar.com/GML/AgesOfWorld.html
Hi Will,

The yugas and the times lines are more to do with individual time cycles of the jiva, not historical linear times. The problem with the greek systems is that it bases its knowledge and philosophy on the thought and external empiricism, which are given very little credit and hardly spoken of in the puranas~ancient~timeless wisdom. Bhagavata Purana is a mature commentary~para vak on Vedanta describing the qualities of the bhagavat spoken by Avadhuta Sukadeva Goswami.



:anjali:

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:04 pm

DNS wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:23 am
Most of the things on that list have come true. For example:
1). People will not think twice before cutting down trees or destroying groves.
3). Even though having the outward appearance of saints, people will indulge in trade and commercial activity.
4). During Kaliyuga a man will be friends only with his wife.
In this socially isolated times, many men do only make friends with their wife.
21). Because of the shortage of cows, people will resort to drinking goat and sheep-milk.
This one has not happened and it is not likely that it will happen due to factory farming, breeding of livestock, etc.
53). The highest purpose of life will be to fill one's belly.
:D Looks to be fairly accurate, with a huge rise in obesity in the developed world.
57). Houses will be desolate because of the lack of chanting of Vedas and absence of guests.
Again, perhaps due to social isolation, social media, etc, this appears to be true too.
Hi DNS

The predictions are coming true this is for sure, but these are NOT predictions of the omniscient mind of the rishis as recorded by Veda Vysa, this is something very different.

Lets try and look at the above predictions of forecasting events of the world dominated by the industrial revolution in the west, where Europe was quite far ahead at the time, and still is, America is an extension of Europe.

One example that pops to mind was when trump went into power they showed some scenes from the simpsons, years before he came into power, not sure f its true because I just caught a glimpse, im using examples, i neither care about the simpsons or trump.

There is a book called The Transparent Society (1998) is a non-fiction book by the science-fiction author David Brin who was making predictions about the new technology age and easy access for information.

Again its forecasting

1984 Goerge Orwell

Get my drift

Its forecasting events and using ancient translations and at the same time degrading an ancient culture for domination.

Will says speculative

Absolutely not

If you want to discuss any topics directly from the sanskrit slokas without translations we can continue, or else its a bit to speculative for my liking.

Like how the 5th canto is being translated and used in flat and round earth theory, again another hijack on the translations and has zero to do with Bhagavat Dharma of the puranas.

If you want a better understanding of the srimad bhagavatam then its better to research into the translations of srila sridhar swami

https://lists.advaita-vedanta.org//arch ... 33230.html


:anjali:

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:40 pm

DNS wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:23 am
Most of the things on that list have come true. For example:
21). Because of the shortage of cows, people will resort to drinking goat and sheep-milk.
This one has not happened and it is not likely that it will happen due to factory farming, breeding of livestock, etc.
i would think that people do this in some places
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by 2600htz » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:36 am

Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:10 pm
Meezer77 wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:54 am
Is Kali Yuga mentioned in the Suttas or only in Hindu scriptures? I remember an ISKCON guru telling me that when it gets really bad people will start eating their kids. Lovely thought 😊
The Wheel-turning Emperor (Excerpt)
Cakkavatti Sutta (DN 26)

Introduction
The body of this sutta consists of a narrative illustrating the power of skillful action. The narrative states that, in the past, unskillful behavior was unknown among the human race. As a result, people lived for an immensely long time—80,000 years—endowed with great beauty, wealth, pleasure, and strength. Over the course of time, though, they began behaving in various unskillful ways. This caused the human life span gradually to shorten, to the point where it now stands at 100 years, with human beauty, wealth, pleasure, and strength decreasing proportionately. In the future, as morality continues to degenerate, human life will continue to shorten to the point were the normal life span is ten years, with people reaching sexual maturity at five. “Among those human beings, the ten courses of action (see AN 10:176) will have entirely disappeared.… The word ‘skillful‘ will not exist, so from where will there be anyone who does what is skillful? Those who lack the honorable qualities of motherhood, fatherhood, contemplative-hood, & brahman-hood will be the ones who receive homage.… Fierce hatred will arise, fierce malevolence, fierce rage, & murderous thoughts: mother for child, child for mother, father for child, child for father, brother for sister, sister for brother.”

Ultimately, conditions will deteriorate to the point of a “sword-interval,” in which swords appear in the hands of all human beings, and they hunt one another like game. A few people, however, will take shelter in the wilderness to escape the carnage, and when the slaughter is over, they will come out of hiding and resolve to take up a life of skillful and virtuous action again. With the recovery of virtue, the human life span will gradually increase again until it reaches 80,000 years, with people attaining sexual maturity at 500. Only three diseases will be known at that time: desire, lack of food, and old age. Another Buddha—Metteyya (Maitreya)—will gain awakening, his monastic Saṅgha numbering in the thousands. The greatest king of the time, Saṅkha, will go forth into homelessness and attain arahantship under Metteyya’s guidance.

The story, after chronicling the ups and downs of human wealth, life span, etc., concludes with the following lesson on kamma and skillful action.

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN26.html

:anjali:
Hello:

I was thinking in the same sutta, some interesting extrapolations:

-If "Kali Yuga" began roughly 5.000 years ago, it means the Buddha Gotama arose in a "Dark period". So its far from being entirely dark.

-Even if we are currently in "Kali Yuga", we are also currently in "the age of saints" (a time period where a buddhist dispensation is still in reasonable good shape, and people are able to attain any of the four stages of sainthood).

-If we read DN-26, we can make the inference that Gotama will be last Buddha before humanity reaches his lowest pick. The Buddha Metteyya is supposed to arise when human beings are in good shape, and 80,000 years is the normal life span.

-We are also according to DN-14 in the "fortunate eon" (ohh so many periods hahaha). A eon where already four buddhas have arisen.

So i guess dhamma can arise at any time, any time period can be fortunate, but in a more general sense, yes, the world is in decline.

Regards.

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by Will » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:52 am

2600htz wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:36 am

-If "Kali Yuga" began roughly 5.000 years ago, it means the Buddha Gotama arose in a "Dark period". So its far from being entirely dark.

Regards.
The Axial Age not only produced Buddha, but Moses, Plato, Pythagoras, Lao Tzu, Confucius, Adi Shankara, Jesus & others. It is only dark for the masses who ignore & do not try to live by these saviors' teachings. Perhaps so many appeared in those first 2 or 3 thousand years of KY in order to provide some lasting (but not eternal) light for those who would live by it. But as the age of darkness deepens, the percentage of the masses who actually try to follow these Great Ones gets smaller & smaller.
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by chownah » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:17 am

I think that the information age has rather done away with most of the influence that these fabricated ages might have on most people.
chownah

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Re: Signs of Kali Yuga

Post by markandeya » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:23 am

Will wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:52 am
2600htz wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:36 am

-If "Kali Yuga" began roughly 5.000 years ago, it means the Buddha Gotama arose in a "Dark period". So its far from being entirely dark.

Regards.
The Axial Age not only produced Buddha, but Moses, Plato, Pythagoras, Lao Tzu, Confucius, Adi Shankara, Jesus & others. It is only dark for the masses who ignore & do not try to live by these saviors' teachings. Perhaps so many appeared in those first 2 or 3 thousand years of KY in order to provide some lasting (but not eternal) light for those who would live by it. But as the age of darkness deepens, the percentage of the masses who actually try to follow these Great Ones gets smaller & smaller.
Hi Will,

You seem to be an authority on this and but to me you represent the real illusion of the yugas on what is avatar and the western version is all you know and have accepted. There are no saviours in the dharma traditions, this is not what avatar or sri guru means. The whole made up idea of Gotama being a saviour in a degraded time was invented. Jesus was invented. Adi Shanakara is not saviour, these are just anthropomorphic monotheistic materialistic ideas. The modern way to educate may have tricked some but not all. Adi Shankara is alive and well today and so is Buddha. They only become popularized by rulers.

Do you think there are not enlightened people around now, they are always here and always few and dwell in silence, silence has a definite meaning, and teach only for the few when they are ready. For some people this day and age is better. For example in the dark ages where Christians ruled Europe is it better or worse than it is now.

But I guess your stuck, but hopefully you will understand, maybe you need to be born in a another age and at a time of the saviours.

I can only urge you to re asses the teachings on yugas and avatars and bring it into the present moment, and give up these man made ideas.

The more negativity that is promoted and people thinking we live in a bad age it spreads even more negativity and false mundane dependency on so called saviours will not work, it will not take one out of the external mind sense matrix.

I offered you a chance and the offer is still open to discuss from the Sanskrit on Srimad Bhagavatam or Bhagavad Gita~ Gitopanishad, and not from mundane translations also which most certain do not perfectly represent these science~vidyas

Or maybe you will need to wait for the scholars to get it right, but since universities are run by monotheistic materialists I doubt that the real truth will ever be given the right credit.

With metta

:anjali:

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