Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
auto
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by auto » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:08 pm

nice vid

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salayatananirodha
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by salayatananirodha » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:26 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:51 am
salayatananirodha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:41 am
Hilarious?
One of the hilariously bad translations of the early English translation era.... :tongue:

:heart:
Mike
I just didn't see what was so bad about it :rolleye:
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

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mikenz66
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:34 pm

salayatananirodha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:26 pm
mikenz66 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:51 am
salayatananirodha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:41 am
Hilarious?
One of the hilariously bad translations of the early English translation era.... :tongue:

:heart:
Mike
I just didn't see what was so bad about it :rolleye:
Really? Meditation as hypnosis or trance? Clearly not an experienced-based translation as others gave already noted.

Mike

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salayatananirodha
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by salayatananirodha » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:55 pm

I didn't believe they were translating meditation as hypnosis. Or else you would find meditation translated by them as hypnosis in other suttas. I think the kasiṇas are just used for samatha.
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

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mikenz66
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:20 pm

salayatananirodha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:55 pm
I didn't believe they were translating meditation as hypnosis. Or else you would find meditation translated by them as hypnosis in other suttas. I think the kasiṇas are just used for samatha.
Samatha isn't hypnosis, whether one is using breath, kasina, mettaor some other object....

Mike

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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by chownah » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:30 am

I think it somewhat odd that people are comparing hypnosis to meditation when it seems to me that it is unlikely that they can answer the questions: 1. What exactly is hypnosis or what exactly are the various kinds of hypnosis and how do they work?...and 2. What exactly is meditation or what exactly are the various kinds of meditation and how do they work?

I've never seen convincing answers to those questions and without those answers I think it is impossible to make a comparison.
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by auto » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:14 pm

hypnotism is fake as the headline is suggesting. It is biological mechanism.

This vid roasts fake mystics.

It isn't mean against the past life memory hypnotism, it kind of supports that it could be possible, see the cat and cucumber example. Supposedly that function where you are in that state past memories are fed, cats fear of snakes will be carried via that state onto next generations. So the cat gets scared of when seeing a cucumber because it for a moment reminds snake.

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LG2V
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by LG2V » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:01 am

LG2V wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:52 am
That's a darned good question. Presumably yes.

Jhana is different from hypnosis, imo. In hypnosis, it feels like you're being "led" somewhere. I think that jhana feels more liberating.

A slightly related question: does anyone speculate on how the quality of Buddha's speech compelled so many to mass awakening (sotapanna, etc)? I don't mean to dive into inconjecturable territory, but it is something that crosses my mind from time to time. I suppose that part of it was the wisdom and paramis of the people who lived then, but there's definitely much to be owed to the world's greatest teacher.
A follow up to this thought:

Suppose that Buddha had pitch perfect voice, and he spoke in different notes and chords, like a musical instrument or song. It's beautiful, and the musically inclined might be able to see the truth more quickly; in addition, more intelligent beings, perhaps such as mathematically inclined devas, would be able to find the truth by observing the mathematical relations between the notes used by Buddha's voice while he was speaking. I find the thought particularly beautiful.
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Bundokji
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by Bundokji » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:20 pm

I remember that one of the forum members (Aloka) is a certified hypnotist, so maybe she could shed light on the similarities and differences between hypnotism and meditation if she wants to.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Aloka
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by Aloka » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:00 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:20 pm
I remember that one of the forum members (Aloka) is a certified hypnotist, so maybe she could shed light on the similarities and differences between hypnotism and meditation if she wants to.
I'm a qualified hypnotherapist, not a hypnotist like the people who do stage shows, supposedly making members of the audience waddle around the stage clucking and thinking they're chickens or whatever.

Receiving hypnotherapy can help people to relax very deeply and better understand and overcome personal anxieties and phobias with the help of the therapist - but I don't see how it has any real connection with meditation. One doesn't meditate with the intention of slipping into a trance like state ....well I certainly don't!

.

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Bundokji
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by Bundokji » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:36 pm

Aloka wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:00 pm
I'm a qualified hypnotherapist, not a hypnotist like the people who do stage shows, supposedly making members of the audience waddle around the stage clucking and thinking they're chickens or whatever.

Receiving hypnotherapy can help people to relax very deeply and better understand and overcome personal anxieties and phobias with the help of the therapist - but I don't see how it has any real connection with meditation. One doesn't meditate with the intention of slipping into a trance like state ....well I certainly don't!

.
Thank you for your answer.

I have limited knowledge about hypnosis, but from what i know, i can imagine few parallels/similarities between hypnosis and some forms of meditation.

What i know that hypnosis works because of our vulnerability to suggestions (which forms our perceptions). Is this equally applicable to hypnotherapy?

Some forms of meditation includes self hypnosis in my opinion (according to the above basic understanding). For example, Metta meditation seem to include suggestions that serves to transform the mind or mental attitudes towards people. Also some mediators use visualization which seem to be also used by hypnotists.

Some describe meditation, especially for beginners, as simply relaxing by letting go, which seem to have the same therapeutic effects you described.

Also, hypnosis seem to be linked to the idea of subconscious mind, which is not rational, yet more powerful and more real than the conscious mind. Some Buddhist scholars utilized the idea of subconscious in their teachings including a famous Malaysian monk (i can't remember his name, but it starts with the letter P). I also encountered explanations of enlightenment as making the subconscious, or the unconscious, conscious.

Finally, secular Buddhists interpret Mara to be our subconscious/unconscious desires.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Bundokji
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by Bundokji » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:41 pm

I forgot to add that if hypnosis is likened to a state of sleep, the antidote is heedfulness as per Buddha's teachings.
Heedful among the heedless, wide-awake among the sleepy, the wise man advances like a swift horse leaving behind a weak jade.
In Buddhist circles, there are a lot of talk about social conditioning, which is akin to hypnosis (or suggestions) accepted and taken for granted by the mind.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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