Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
SarathW
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Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:46 am

Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?
Or
Did he try to hypnotise all of us without our knowledge?
or
Is he trying to wake us up from the hypnotic stage?

Funny video:

Last edited by SarathW on Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by JamesTheGiant » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:24 am

...Why have I not told them?
Because they bring no benefit, no advancement in the Holy Life, and because they do not lead to dispassion, to fading, to ceasing, to stilling, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbana.
That is why I have not told them.

SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:07 pm

What is the difference between a hypnotic state and a person in Jhana?
It appears the heart rate and the blood pressure slows in the hypnotic state the same as the Jhana state.

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by JamesTheGiant » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:36 pm

I've been hypnotized, and I've been in first jhana-lite/close to hard jhana.
The two are nothing alike. Utterly different.
In hypnotism the mind is open, aware of the outside world, relaxed, accepting, flaccid.
In Jhana the mind is closed, mostly oblivious of the outside world, focused on one thing, deliberately excluding other objects, keen.
Hypnotism is easy to do, jhana is very difficult to do.
They're almost polar opposites.
They are both unusual states of mind, which is why people think they may be similar, but they really aren't.

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salayatananirodha
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by salayatananirodha » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:33 am

Kasiṇa meditation is translated like self-hypnosis somewhere on suttacentral.
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


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santa100
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by santa100 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:29 am

What is the difference between a hypnotic state and a person in Jhana?
In hypnotic state, you are controlled by your hypnotizer. In Jhana, you're in control of yourself.

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mikenz66
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:16 am

salayatananirodha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:33 am
Kasiṇa meditation is translated like self-hypnosis somewhere on suttacentral.
I don't think it's so specific. The old PTS texts translate jhana as "trance":
Herein a monk, aloof from sensuality,
aloof from evil states,
enters on the first trance
which is accompanied by thought directed and sustained,
born of solitude,
zestful and easeful,
and abides therein.
...
https://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pt ... od.pts.htm
:heart:
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SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by SarathW » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:18 am

In hypnotic state, you are controlled by your hypnotizer.
Which means there is a state we do not have a control over ourselves.
So it is possible us to be possessed by another power like a devil?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by JamesTheGiant » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:25 am

SarathW wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:18 am
So it is possible us to be possessed by another power like a devil?
Yes, even Ananda was controlled by Mara, when the Buddha mentioned that he could live a long time if somebody asked him.
Possession is a thing in Buddhism, definitely.

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salayatananirodha
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by salayatananirodha » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:21 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:16 am
salayatananirodha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:33 am
Kasiṇa meditation is translated like self-hypnosis somewhere on suttacentral.
I don't think it's so specific. The old PTS texts translate jhana as "trance":
Herein a monk, aloof from sensuality,
aloof from evil states,
enters on the first trance
which is accompanied by thought directed and sustained,
born of solitude,
zestful and easeful,
and abides therein.
...
https://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pt ... od.pts.htm
:heart:
Mike
T.W. & C.A.F. Rhys Davids DN 34:
ii. Which Ten must be developed?

Ten objects for self-hypnosis.

These, perceived severally as above, below or across, and as homogeneous, and without limits, are a piece of earth [extended matter], water, fire, air, indigo, yellow, red, white, space, consciousness. (as detailed in X, ii onwards of the Sangiti Sutta).
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

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mikenz66
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:29 am

Yes, that's hilarious. Here is Bhikkhu Sujato's translation, along with the Pali:
Ten universal dimensions of meditation.
Dasa kasiṇāyatanāni.

Someone perceives the meditation on universal earth above, below, across, non-dual and limitless.
Pathavīkasiṇameko sañjānāti, uddhaṃ adho tiriyaṃ advayaṃ appamāṇaṃ.
https://suttacentral.net/dn33/en/sujato#3.3.35
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salayatananirodha
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by salayatananirodha » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:41 am

Hilarious?
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

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LG2V
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by LG2V » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:52 am

That's a darned good question. Presumably yes.

Jhana is different from hypnosis, imo. In hypnosis, it feels like you're being "led" somewhere. I think that jhana feels more liberating.

A slightly related question: does anyone speculate on how the quality of Buddha's speech compelled so many to mass awakening (sotapanna, etc)? I don't mean to dive into inconjecturable territory, but it is something that crosses my mind from time to time. I suppose that part of it was the wisdom and paramis of the people who lived then, but there's definitely much to be owed to the world's greatest teacher.
Here are some excellent sites for giving free Dana (Click-Based Donation):
http://freerice.comhttp://greatergood.com/www.ripple.orgwww.thenonprofits.com

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mikenz66
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:51 am

salayatananirodha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:41 am
Hilarious?
One of the hilariously bad translations of the early English translation era.... :tongue:

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markandeya
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Re: Did Buddha ever know about the hypnotism?

Post by markandeya » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:05 pm

I would say that they did know about hypnotism but maybe not the way its practiced now. The Buddha and some of his disciples had iddhi or supernormal powers, although iddhi is quite difficult to translate into English as there is no real equivalent. I would say by experience some parts of meditation practice is a form of hypnotism but again not in the same way as its practiced as per the video and modern techniques. One can control and influence ones own state of mind through trance like absorption's Jhanas and also influence others. Originally knowledge Vijjā was passed on through वाच्, vāc. Im not sure this is given much attention in Theravāda, even though its vāda of the elders, which means wisdom, vāda is related to vak or वाच्, vāc, vāda often gets translated as theory or doctrine, but its far from that, its closer to original meaning of sutta or is the essence of sutta, उवाच (uvāca) many may not know that U is directly referring to transcendence or the supramundane state ( my sanskrit is better than pali :) ) . In vedanta for example there are 4 levels of speech divided into the avasthas/lokas and that which transcends the lokas, so far I have found the connections in both Abhidharma ans Vedanta with the sates or lokas and above the lokas, kamloka rupaloka, arupaloka and lokuttara, which aligns to jagrat, svapna, sushupti and turiya, but within the Vedanta system all 3 states and the transcendent have an equal level of vāc or speech that accompanies it. By power of vāc it can transform mind, or by power of speech it can transform the mind. This is why dharma has and always be an oral traditions, but what that oral tradition is based upon is four levels of speech. I am slowly doing some research into this part of the pali suttas, but it seems I may have to go to Sri Lanka to get to the bottom of this :)

When I was in India and have spent time with sadhus and been involved in some practices there is a trance like hypnotic effects, where mind is absorbed and transformation takes place, but again its not the same as the way hypnotism is practiced. so there are physic powers of absorption in the meditation side of practice.

I for one am totally hypnotized by the dharma :anjali:

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