Evolution, Big Bang

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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salayatananirodha
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by salayatananirodha » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:11 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:12 pm
Wait, so the Buddha knows how to debug and flash a custom ROM onto my Samsung phone? He knows how to set high facebook privacy settings? He knows the cure for cancer and how to make the ITER fusion tokamak work?
Nonsense!
Why is this nonsense? :?
ScottPen wrote:To us, quoting scripture to prove itself is circular reasoning.
Yes, this is to be expected. I for one do not say (nor does the Buddha) to take his word on blind faith. That is even blameworthy. I'm saying that our religion is based on faith that his word is infallible and pertaining to his direct knowledge and to claim that it isn't is to alter his teaching. There must be a distinction present between "this is certainly not true" and "I don't have confirmed confidence". Anyway the Dhamma is available for inspection. Which I'd assume is why a forum like this exists. There is a tad more skepticism than I'd have expected, but we are much later in the sasana. :)
Better to correct wrong views than let them fester. Great discussion!
16. 'In what has the world originated?' — so said the Yakkha Hemavata, — 'with what is the world intimate? by what is the world afflicted, after having grasped at what?' (167)

17. 'In six the world has originated, O Hemavata,' — so said Bhagavat, — 'with six it is intimate, by six the world is afflicted, after having grasped at six.' (168)

- Hemavatasutta


links:
https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/index.htm
http://thaiforestwisdom.org/canonical-texts/
http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by JamesTheGiant » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:41 am

salayatananirodha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:11 am
Great discussion!
Good, I am glad you're not upset. Sometimes new people are discouraged when they suddenly have discussions and disagreements on this website about these things. Welcome! :anjali:

chownah
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by chownah » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:00 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:25 pm
chownah wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:22 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:57 pm


You may be right, and science is just one of those myths. But the point is that different myths are incompatible in terms of what they say is existent. The Buddha's creation myth and the myth propagated by modern science - if that's what they are - cannot both be believed in their entirety.
What substance would there be in either?
chownah
I'm not sure what you mean by "substance" here. Do you mean what use is it?
I'm using it in the same sense as it is used in the suttas where it says "To him — seeing it, observing it, & appropriately examining it — it would appear empty, void, without substance: for what substance would there be in consciousness?" (similarly for form, feeling, perception, and fabrication)
chownah

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Sam Vara
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:37 am

chownah wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:00 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:25 pm
chownah wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:22 pm

What substance would there be in either?
chownah
I'm not sure what you mean by "substance" here. Do you mean what use is it?
I'm using it in the same sense as it is used in the suttas where it says "To him — seeing it, observing it, & appropriately examining it — it would appear empty, void, without substance: for what substance would there be in consciousness?" (similarly for form, feeling, perception, and fabrication)
chownah
I think in this sutta it means something like an unchanging essence or independent entity. (What pali term is referred to?) If so, then the same would apply to mythical and scientific accounts.

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dylanj
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by dylanj » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:00 am

ScottPen wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:27 pm
salayatananirodha wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:26 pm
AN 4.24 does well in defense of the Buddha's knowledge. Also the range of the tathāgata's knowledge in acintita sutta is unconjecturable, so I don't take it to have a limit. He knew everything every scientist could ever see or think or sense.
dylanj wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:49 pm
"Monks, whatever in the cosmos — with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations with their contemplatives & brahmans royalty & common people — is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect: That do I know. Whatever in the cosmos — with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations with their contemplatives & brahmans, their royalty & common people — is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect: That I directly know. That has been realized by the Tathagata, but in the Tathagata it has not been established."
AN 4.24
You folks have good and useful knowledge of the suttas which serves your faith well. You have accepted the suttas as the infallible words of the infallible Lord Buddha. I'm happy for you! You're on the path and your scripture-knowledge seems to be helping the path to be less obstructed for you. Very good- and truly, I wish you nothing but freedom from dukka.

There are those of us that don't have the same faith. To us, quoting scripture to prove itself is circular reasoning. for example, a man named, I dunno, George, let's say - says he is the smartest man alive. People believe George for many reasons. Those believers go tell other people that this man is the smartest man alive, and he said that a stomach ache is caused by demons. Some no-good troublemaking skeptic pipes up and the following conversation ensues:

Troublemaking Skeptic: "Hang on there, bubba. Why should I believe this George character? This sounds implausible."
Pious Believer: "Because George said so. He's the smartest man alive. I have it written down right here."
Troublemaking Skeptic: "You have what written down?"
Pious Believer: "That George said he's the smartest man alive, AND that demons are causing your tummy ache."
Troublemaking Skeptic: "So you're telling me that the second thing written down in your book is proved by the first thing written down in your book?"
Pious Believer: "Exactly! I'm glad we see eye to eye."
Troublemaking Skeptic: "So what makes the book true?"
Pious Believer: "The book is the words of the smartest man alive. George. He's fantastic."
Troublemaking Skeptic: "So what you're saying is that I have to accept that George is the smartest man alive because he says he is the smartest man alive, and since he is the smartest man alive that means that he is the smartest man alive because how could the smartest man alive be wrong?"
Pious Beliver: "Exactamundo."
Troublemaking Skeptic: "That doesn't make any sense. Now I have a stomach ache AND a headache."

yeah & this is a theravāda buddhist forum which has a "discovering theravāda" subforum where members such as you & those you describe are welcome to express your skepticism. but it's inappropriate elsewhere, not so much in the sense that you should not participate but that it derails the discussion when someone contributes nothing other than their skepticism & disbelief in the Dhamma. I don't think the faithful Buddhists should have to explain & justify their views again & again to nonbuddhist skeptic-materialists on a Buddhist forum - that would take up a lot of time & inhibit the pursuit of those who are here to understand the Dhamma as the Buddha taught it, which is what this forum is for.

I hope you can understand this. I am happy to explain & justify my faith without a "circular" (it's not as if I would ever use the sort of argument in the dialogue you provided, nor am I doing so in this thread) argument to authority based on scripture & feel I am wholly capable of doing so but again, I think it's off-topic here, & if a skeptic is left unsatisfied they are free to go to the Discovering Theravāda subforum or PM & ask for elaboration.

:anjali:
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

Saengnapha
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:24 am

chownah wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:21 pm
Pretty much our entire experience is a myth....the myth of the self....the myth of others....the myth of the "world out there that is real".
Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. Through dispassion, he's released. With release there's the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"
This is what we get when we see our mythos for just exactly what it is.
chownah
chownah,

If you see that our entire experience is a myth, the myth of self and others, the myth of the world being real, wouldn't this myth include Buddhism and all that it proposes? You would have to come to this conclusion if you really see your entire experience as being a myth. There would be nothing outside of your experience you could point to and say 'that is not a myth'. It seems to me it is only our thought structure which creates all of this myth, plus, the ideas that are supposed to fall 'outside' of this myth and the practice that leads to it. All of it being myth. Nothing is excluded. You would no longer struggle with understanding your own thinking or trying to change anything about yourself as you would now realize that it is only your thought structure which is looping the myth over and over again and in fact, you had always been mistaken about what you are and who you are. To me, this would be radical insight that would immediately release one from this pernicious cycle and all of the illusions we harbor.

chownah
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by chownah » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:30 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:24 am
chownah wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:21 pm
Pretty much our entire experience is a myth....the myth of the self....the myth of others....the myth of the "world out there that is real".
Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. Through dispassion, he's released. With release there's the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"
This is what we get when we see our mythos for just exactly what it is.
chownah
chownah,

If you see that our entire experience is a myth, the myth of self and others, the myth of the world being real, wouldn't this myth include Buddhism and all that it proposes? You would have to come to this conclusion if you really see your entire experience as being a myth. There would be nothing outside of your experience you could point to and say 'that is not a myth'. It seems to me it is only our thought structure which creates all of this myth, plus, the ideas that are supposed to fall 'outside' of this myth and the practice that leads to it. All of it being myth. Nothing is excluded. You would no longer struggle with understanding your own thinking or trying to change anything about yourself as you would now realize that it is only your thought structure which is looping the myth over and over again and in fact, you had always been mistaken about what you are and who you are. To me, this would be radical insight that would immediately release one from this pernicious cycle and all of the illusions we harbor.
I am pretty much in agreement with the stuff in blue and in answer to your question there, yes it clearly includes buddhism and all it proposes.....like in the simile of the raft where it says that the dhamma is for crossing the flood and once you have crossed you sink the raft and you don't go around carrying it with you...it has done its work and it is to be discarded.
The stuff in red is (I think) a projection and I don't think that the red stuff necessarily follows from the blue stuff and that it might be pertinent to your very own path but might not be for others.
chownah

Saengnapha
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:32 am

chownah wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:30 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:24 am
chownah wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:21 pm
Pretty much our entire experience is a myth....the myth of the self....the myth of others....the myth of the "world out there that is real".


This is what we get when we see our mythos for just exactly what it is.
chownah
chownah,

If you see that our entire experience is a myth, the myth of self and others, the myth of the world being real, wouldn't this myth include Buddhism and all that it proposes? You would have to come to this conclusion if you really see your entire experience as being a myth. There would be nothing outside of your experience you could point to and say 'that is not a myth'. It seems to me it is only our thought structure which creates all of this myth, plus, the ideas that are supposed to fall 'outside' of this myth and the practice that leads to it. All of it being myth. Nothing is excluded. You would no longer struggle with understanding your own thinking or trying to change anything about yourself as you would now realize that it is only your thought structure which is looping the myth over and over again and in fact, you had always been mistaken about what you are and who you are. To me, this would be radical insight that would immediately release one from this pernicious cycle and all of the illusions we harbor.
I am pretty much in agreement with the stuff in blue and in answer to your question there, yes it clearly includes buddhism and all it proposes.....like in the simile of the raft where it says that the dhamma is for crossing the flood and once you have crossed you sink the raft and you don't go around carrying it with you...it has done its work and it is to be discarded.
The stuff in red is (I think) a projection and I don't think that the red stuff necessarily follows from the blue stuff and that it might be pertinent to your very own path but might not be for others.
chownah
The red stuff is what I would expect to happen through extending the logic of the blue, but I am happy to put it aside as it is already not the point and as you say, may be on the personal side. :twothumbsup:

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egon
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by egon » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:11 pm

dylanj wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:00 am
yeah & this is a theravāda buddhist forum which has a "discovering theravāda" subforum where members such as you & those you describe are welcome to express your skepticism. but it's inappropriate elsewhere, not so much in the sense that you should not participate but that it derails the discussion when someone contributes nothing other than their skepticism & disbelief in the Dhamma. I don't think the faithful Buddhists should have to explain & justify their views again & again to nonbuddhist skeptic-materialists on a Buddhist forum - that would take up a lot of time & inhibit the pursuit of those who are here to understand the Dhamma as the Buddha taught it, which is what this forum is for.

I hope you can understand this. I am happy to explain & justify my faith without a "circular" (it's not as if I would ever use the sort of argument in the dialogue you provided, nor am I doing so in this thread) argument to authority based on scripture & feel I am wholly capable of doing so but again, I think it's off-topic here, & if a skeptic is left unsatisfied they are free to go to the Discovering Theravāda subforum or PM & ask for elaboration.

:anjali:
Dylan, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I wasn't trying to derail the conversation at all. This subforum is for "Connections to Other Paths" - and since my path is heavily informed by the Western Insight movement I'd say that my frame of reference is appropriately expressed here. In fact, this is one of only a small number of subs in this forum in which I think ANY practitioner of ANY path should feel completely at ease and not disruptive when providing their POV. Perhaps you'd benefit by not expecting to only see Theravadan POV's in a sub which has "Other Paths" in the title.
I only occasionally post in DWT, purely because I don't wish to interrupt the flow in the way that you describe. Not only that, but my practice is new and I'm here to learn, more than anything else. When I do post, it's with a fully open mind and a friendly attitude. I'll occasionally attempt to be funny, but I do so with zero malicious intent- only a desire to be lighthearted. If you or anyone else thinks my presence in a thread is inappropriate, I'm happy to consider the criticism without taking it personally in any way.

So- If one were to take the Pali Canon as the literal word of a person with omniscience, one would certainly say that if the Buddha didn't introduce an idea by saying it was allegorical, then it categorically is NOT allegorical. After all, he said that he spoke nothing but the truth so help him himself (not a real quote, not slanderous, just a little lighthearted, settle down). I get it. But the view from my newly-discovered, gnarled, rocky, overgrown, uphill Other Path where I seem to be walking with a bunch of hippies (it does smell kind of funny over here), the sutta discussed in the OP does seem like a myth. And guess what? I think that's super cool. I don't know if you happened to read one of my other posts, but here's something that might help you to understand me a little better:
ScottPen wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:56 am
Some folks have a hard time reconciling the pragmatic and sensible nature of the dhamma with what they consider to be the implausible "metaphysical" parts of it. They hold the Buddha in such high regard, that they refuse to reject the dhamma on the basis of what they consider to be implausible, and as such they embrace it in a way that makes sense to them. That's not defamation. That's esteem.
Have a fantastic day, my friend!

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egon
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by egon » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:19 pm

salayatananirodha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:11 am
Yes, this is to be expected. I for one do not say (nor does the Buddha) to take his word on blind faith. That is even blameworthy. I'm saying that our religion is based on faith that his word is infallible and pertaining to his direct knowledge and to claim that it isn't is to alter his teaching. There must be a distinction present between "this is certainly not true" and "I don't have confirmed confidence". Anyway the Dhamma is available for inspection. Which I'd assume is why a forum like this exists. There is a tad more skepticism than I'd have expected, but we are much later in the sasana. :)
Better to correct wrong views than let them fester. Great discussion!
salayatananirodha, I appreciate the friendly consideration. I have a truly agnostic view, which does get in the way of having "faith" of any sort. On the other hand, I hold no scorn for that which I find to be implausible or the folks that have faith in it, nor do I mean to imply that I know better than anyone else what the Buddha did or did not know or say. I'm a bald-faced smooth-skinned noob. Thanks for having patience with me!

chownah
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by chownah » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:06 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:24 am
chownah wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:21 pm
Pretty much our entire experience is a myth....the myth of the self....the myth of others....the myth of the "world out there that is real".
Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. Through dispassion, he's released. With release there's the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"
This is what we get when we see our mythos for just exactly what it is.
chownah
chownah,

If you see that our entire experience is a myth, the myth of self and others, the myth of the world being real, wouldn't this myth include Buddhism and all that it proposes? You would have to come to this conclusion if you really see your entire experience as being a myth. There would be nothing outside of your experience you could point to and say 'that is not a myth'. It seems to me it is only our thought structure which creates all of this myth, plus, the ideas that are supposed to fall 'outside' of this myth and the practice that leads to it. All of it being myth. Nothing is excluded. You would no longer struggle with understanding your own thinking or trying to change anything about yourself as you would now realize that it is only your thought structure which is looping the myth over and over again and in fact, you had always been mistaken about what you are and who you are. To me, this would be radical insight that would immediately release one from this pernicious cycle and all of the illusions we harbor.
ONe think from the red seems on the money: "this would be radical insight that would immediately release one ". Compare this with the sutta: "Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. Through dispassion, he's released. With release there's the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world."
chownah

Saengnapha
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:09 pm

chownah wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:06 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:24 am
chownah wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:21 pm
Pretty much our entire experience is a myth....the myth of the self....the myth of others....the myth of the "world out there that is real".


This is what we get when we see our mythos for just exactly what it is.
chownah
chownah,

If you see that our entire experience is a myth, the myth of self and others, the myth of the world being real, wouldn't this myth include Buddhism and all that it proposes? You would have to come to this conclusion if you really see your entire experience as being a myth. There would be nothing outside of your experience you could point to and say 'that is not a myth'. It seems to me it is only our thought structure which creates all of this myth, plus, the ideas that are supposed to fall 'outside' of this myth and the practice that leads to it. All of it being myth. Nothing is excluded. You would no longer struggle with understanding your own thinking or trying to change anything about yourself as you would now realize that it is only your thought structure which is looping the myth over and over again and in fact, you had always been mistaken about what you are and who you are. To me, this would be radical insight that would immediately release one from this pernicious cycle and all of the illusions we harbor.
ONe think from the red seems on the money: "this would be radical insight that would immediately release one ". Compare this with the sutta: "Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he grows dispassionate. Through dispassion, he's released. With release there's the knowledge, 'Released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world."
chownah
Snipped from the UGK thread:
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:55 am
chownah wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:08 am
after watching the first two episodes of the video it seems to me that ugk's presentation can be understood in a way which it very similar to what the buddha taught (if one understands the buddha's teaching in a certain way) but the main difference is that the buddha claims that there is a way out of samsara and ugk claims that there is not. Since there are very few (none?) credible clear examples of those who have escaped samsara walking around today and there are alot of people saying that they are trying to escape but as of yet have not, it is difficult in the absence of faith to know who is right.
chownah
Chownah,

I had an interesting conversation today with a friend who also knew UG and we talked about this very issue of No Way Out. This was a common theme in UG's chats with friends, 'is there anything to be done?' Both of us felt that no one could come to the end of samsara by any act of their own will or any manipulation of mind or body, ie., meditation. The very impulse of resistance to your own present state must stop. This insight deepens and weakens the will, your desire to escape from what is, samsara. Samsara is just a name for your own condition. When this resistance disappears, this triggers the event of the natural state. In a sense, a complete letting go of all desire to be something else takes place. You have to struggle a lot to understand that your own struggle is futile. No path means the end of becoming. UG lived this as an example. This is not an heroic struggle. That is a romance novel. There is no victory or gain. It is simply the cessation of ignorance, the deception that you can do something about escaping your own misery. Misery being your ordinary life and all its strategies, philosophies, and tactics, to achieve enlightenment, awakening, ultimate truth, etc. It's a hard pill to swallow. When you see such a person like UG, he was empty of any self reference or self aggrandizement. He never waivered from this. There was no inner life going on. He told me once, 'you don't know if you are alive or dead'.
I quoted the above because it relates to what we spoke of many months ago in the UGK thread. You mention that there are few or non credible, clear examples of those who have escaped Samsara walking around today, yet what UG speaks about in the video that I posted in that thread clearly attests to his own end of the struggle. How he describes this is simply the best description I have ever come across in 50 years of interest in this subject. It is devoid of dogma, path, and the development of any techniques of thought control, ie., meditation, all being the myth of self, world, and the dream of existence. Because it is spoken in everyday language, it is accessible to all. No need to learn new words, new behaviors, new beliefs.

For me, the distortion of the Buddha's teaching over the centuries has made it into another cult/religion that people adapt to no matter how much they deny that they are doing it. Every philosophy, religion, and science that tries to describe the nature of the universe, man, and the time/space continuum are doomed to failure because it is all done through the thought structure which cannot know and doesn't want to know anything but itself, its knowledge, and its survival.

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Osaka
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by Osaka » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:00 am

I do not think that everything that is written in the Pali Canon is supposed to be taken literally. What about DN 30? If this is supposed to be historicaly factual then the Buddha was some kind of chimera with antelope legs, a giant tongue and arms so long he can touch his knees with his palms standing up, just to mention those. I think disciples feel the need to attribute all kinds of magic powers and omnicient knowledge to their master once he died in some kind of attempt to cope with his loss and create a more faith-inspiring narative. This phenomenon can be seen in action even very recently with the biography of Ajahn Mun, which is filled to the brim with supernatural powers, visits from devas and things like that. It does not seem relevent to me to debate the historical accuracy of the Agganna Sutta, I think this creation myth can be useful as it teaches how craving pull people down and creates coarser and coarser mental conditions an can be helpful when read that way. I'm not saying it cannot possibly be factual, I don't know, but I think Pali scholars are taking this a little too much to heart if they start debates around it being a satire or not. I really love this sutta, I find it very inspiring, weither it's factual or just a helpful myth. :)

TRobinson465
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Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by TRobinson465 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:25 am

I personally believe the Buddha over science in most cases. Some science is certain and cannot really be disputed. Evolution however has many holes and is constantly changing. a few years ago scientific consensus was that modern humans evolved 200,000 years ago, now they say 300,000. I am willing to bet money that the scientific consensus is going to change again within the next 100 years. a few hundred years ago there was only like 5 planets, then later they said 9, now 8. Nothing in the universe or history changed, scientists just learned more. The Buddha's Dhamma eyes are perfect, scientists are not, as they have to deal with whatever limited evidence they have with them at the time. Thus the common phrase "oh back then they believed ______, but we now know ______" But guess what, in 100 years, our ancesters will be saying the exact same thing about us in our simple time.

Science is a great thing that has benefitted society in many ways. but its imperfect and constantly changing. Our grandkids will laugh at the thought that us simple people believed T-rex was a giant lizard. since scientists recently discovered T-rex was really a giant bird and all the renderings they were doing the past several decades of it as a lizard were all wrong.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

TRobinson465
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Evolution, Big Bang

Post by TRobinson465 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:30 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:55 am
I remember a conversation between Doctor Bernard Carr of Cambridge University (Physics), Ajahn Brahmali, and Ajahn Brahm, where they all agreed that the similarities were just accidental.
This sounds interesting. any chance you have a link to this?
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

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