Musings about Tantra.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
LuisR
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:22 pm

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by LuisR » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:12 am

I'm sorry sweetie. : :hello:

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:37 am

LuisR wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:53 am
Yes it is rather unfortunate when people practice tantra instead of real Buddhism.
BUDDHIST Tantra is real Buddhism, the stuff in the video is neither Buddhist, nor Tantra. It is just plain old New Age BS.

As for the "teacher" in the video: OM AMI DEWA HRIH, may she be born in the Pure Land of Dewachen and there directly achieve enlightenment without even hearing the word suffering again.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:23 am

I was wondering about this thread and others like it here at DW and the question arose in my mind: Why do some people here consider Buddhist Tantra a threat to their tradition and practice? What is it about Buddhist Tantra that scares them so much?
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 3984
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:39 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:23 am
I was wondering about this thread and others like it here at DW and the question arose in my mind: Why do some people here consider Buddhist Tantra a threat to their tradition and practice? What is it about Buddhist Tantra that scares them so much?
My guess is that it is due to multiple factors. At root is the basic inability to tolerate, or at least uneasiness with, views which differ from our own. Some people have the same reaction towards Christianity, Islam, etc.. In the case of Tantra, it is a "near enemy" because it is clearly Buddhist; so it makes people even more uneasy because there are perhaps additional underlying anxieties about the perceived misuse of terms, or the idea that people might be attempting to proselytise. Or maybe some people have dabbled in less well-expounded versions, and taken against it due to that. And, as we see above, it is associated with sex and desire, and that's likely to cause a bit of a stir wherever it occurs.

Alleviating the anxiety arising from those perceptions seems to be a useful thing to do. It's a very difficult trick to pull off, though, as the more one tries, the more one looks like a salesperson, or an excuser of foul mispractices!

SarathW
Posts: 9581
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by SarathW » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:48 am

What is it about Buddhist Tantra that scares them so much?
I spent a little bit of time to understand the practice of Tantra but not with much success.
Is Tantra something Buddha taught?
Is it talking about Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path?
Basically how Tantra differ from Theravada?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:48 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:39 am
And, as we see above, it is associated with sex and desire...
I have NEVER seen a Buddhist Tantra teacher advertise and talk about sexual and desire based practices. Never. Consider the fact that my teacher is a lay practitioner in a lay lineage and he never talks about sexual practices. Last year a bunch of New Age loony-tunes turned up to his teachings (obsessed with sexual practices) and I discussed the issue with him afterwards. Needless to say he just sighed sadly and expressed the view that if they have the kamma vipaka to be present at Buddhist teachings then we should not deny them the opportunity and we should make prayers for them that they overcome their delusive afflictions and achieve enlightenment.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:54 am

SarathW wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:48 am
What is it about Buddhist Tantra that scares them so much?
I spent a little bit of time to understand the practice of Tantra but not with much success.
Is Tantra something Buddha taught?
Is it talking about Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path?
Basically how Tantra differ from Theravada?
It is hard to take our questions seriously, given you started the thread with taunts and judgments based on ignorance.

I answered these questions in my discussion with Bundokji here. You were also involved in the discussion but your involvement consisted of taunts and judgments based on ignorance (again). It makes it hard to consider your interest genuine.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 3984
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by Sam Vara » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:54 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:48 am
Sam Vara wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:39 am
And, as we see above, it is associated with sex and desire...
I have NEVER seen a Buddhist Tantra teacher advertise and talk about sexual and desire based practices. Never. Consider the fact that my teacher is a lay practitioner in a lay lineage and he never talks about sexual practices. Last year a bunch of New Age loony-tunes turned up to his teachings (obsessed with sexual practices) and I discussed the issue with him afterwards. Needless to say he just sighed sadly and expressed the view that if they have the kamma vipaka to be present at Buddhist teachings then we should not deny them the opportunity and we should make prayers for them that they overcome their delusive afflictions and achieve enlightenment.
Yes, that's my point. It's about the preconceptions of outsiders, who go by media reports. Your teacher seems to have a sane and compassionate response.

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5760
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by Aloka » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:12 am

Grigoris wrote:I have NEVER seen a Buddhist Tantra teacher advertise and talk about sexual and desire based practices. Never.
Me neither and I've been to a lot of Vajrayana teachings in the past, which included several residential courses and two group retreats.


:anjali:
Last edited by Aloka on Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2292
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by DooDoot » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:15 am

SarathW wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:48 am
Is Tantra something Buddha taught?
I think the Buddha taught a form of 'tantra' in DN 31; where He appeared to say a husband "serves" his wife & gives his wife authority in the home. This is "tantra" because it reduces the male ego (making the man submit to the woman) and gives the wife control of the bedroom. Thus a man can learn the reality of Nature. :mrgreen:
Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:23 am
I was wondering about this thread and others like it here at DW and the question arose in my mind: Why do some people here consider Buddhist Tantra a threat to their tradition and practice? What is it about Buddhist Tantra that scares them so much?
It may not sound very nice but often pleasant feelings arise when clearly knowing the wholesome & unwholesome (and shunning the unwholesome). :mrgreen:
Last edited by DooDoot on Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

SarathW
Posts: 9581
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by SarathW » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:17 am

You were also involved in the discussion but your involvement consisted of taunts and judgments based on ignorance (again).
I express the way I see things.
Perhaps I may be Ignorant but not judgemental.
Assume that you are a very knowledgeable in Mahayana and Tantra I expected you to give me some simple answers.
As a teacher, sometimes you have to handle some difficult students, unfortunately.


“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:27 am

SarathW wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:17 am
Assume that you are a very knowledgeable in Mahayana and Tantra I expected you to give me some simple answers.
You assume wrongly.


As a teacher, sometimes you have to handle some difficult students, unfortunately.
You are not my student. Nobody will take you as a student if you do not show genuine interest. If you are interested in what I know about Tantra then go read my replies to Bundokji in the link I supplied.
Last edited by Grigoris on Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
Grigoris
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:29 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:15 am
It may not sound very nice but often pleasant feelings arise when clearly knowing the wholesome & unwholesome (and shunning the unwholesome). :mrgreen:
Sectarianism based on ignorance is wholesome and leads to pleasant feelings? Well you learn something new every day. :thinking:

If the critiques and discrimination (in it's positive sense) was based in a knowledge of the object of critique/discrimination then this can be construed as positive and helpful (like discriminating between wholesome and unhealthy food, for example), but they are not.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 19963
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Musings about Tantra.

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:57 am

Greetings,

Okay... this set of unfocused "musings" is now over.

If anyone has a structured topic they want to start based on anything said here, by all means please do.

Maybe check out A guide on how to get the most out of your new topics for tips on how to make it more focused and effective.

Until then...

:toilet:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 59 guests