It doesn't get any traction in my mind, because it's just another religion, even while it purports not to be one.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:31 amWhy speculate about this kind of stuff when it is meaningless for anyone who is interested in truth? Freedom is not about adapting to any kind of behavior or thought program. Comparing Fransciscan monks to Thai Forest meditators is laughable. Just sayin'.
Questioner: ...but you say nothing about any intimation of the transcendental, the divine, or whatever you like to call it.
J.Krishnamurti: The intimation of that can be found only in freedom, and any
statement about it is the denial of freedom; any statement about it becomes a
verbal communication without meaning. It is there, but it cannot be found or
invited, least of all imprisoned in any system, or ambushed by any clever tricks of
the mind. It is not in the churches or the temples or the mosques. There is no
path to it, no guru, no system that can reveal its beauty; its ecstasy comes only
when there is love. This is enlightenment.
Does this get any traction in anyone here?
J.Krishnamurti discussion.
J.Krishnamurti discussion.
Split from here: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=31446&start=20#p465416 mikenz66.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
How do you arrive at J. Krishnamurti teaching a religion? Is there a JK temple? Path? Doctrine? Lineage? Of course, people will parrot what he says, but where are his precepts? So, in your view, anything that is a religion gets no traction? Yet, you are here on a Buddhist site. Please explain this great mystery.binocular wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:21 pmIt doesn't get any traction in my mind, because it's just another religion, even while it purports not to be one.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:31 amWhy speculate about this kind of stuff when it is meaningless for anyone who is interested in truth? Freedom is not about adapting to any kind of behavior or thought program. Comparing Fransciscan monks to Thai Forest meditators is laughable. Just sayin'.
Questioner: ...but you say nothing about any intimation of the transcendental, the divine, or whatever you like to call it.
J.Krishnamurti: The intimation of that can be found only in freedom, and any
statement about it is the denial of freedom; any statement about it becomes a
verbal communication without meaning. It is there, but it cannot be found or
invited, least of all imprisoned in any system, or ambushed by any clever tricks of
the mind. It is not in the churches or the temples or the mosques. There is no
path to it, no guru, no system that can reveal its beauty; its ecstasy comes only
when there is love. This is enlightenment.
Does this get any traction in anyone here?
- Crazy cloud
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am
Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.
I agree in general with "Saengnapha", and trust that JK is well explained by my friend ...
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
You keep repeating what he says, and there are many other people who also repeat what he says, that makes for at least a provisional temple and lineage.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:12 amHow do you arrive at J. Krishnamurti teaching a religion? Is there a JK temple? Path? Doctrine? Lineage? Of course, people will parrot what he says, but where are his precepts?
As for path, doctrine, and precepts: What he says is doctrine. That he teaches a path comes from him talking about the path, even if it is ex negativo. The precepts can be inferred from what he says (and you profusely quote).
Take the whole sentence: "It doesn't get any traction in my mind, because it's just another religion, even while it purports not to be one."So, in your view, anything that is a religion gets no traction? Yet, you are here on a Buddhist site. Please explain this great mystery.
When people say things to the effect "Ours is not merely a religion, we don't teach mere opinions, what we say is The Truth", they are just one is so many who say such things. In fact, saying such things is very common. People who say such things should sort things out between themselves before they can rightfully expect others to listen to them. That's why, when such a person preaches to me, I want to tell them to first take it out with all the others who also claim to know The Truth, and then, when there's only one left, they should come talking to me.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
I think you are projecting a lot of what you've seen in religion on to JK and probably U.G. as well. This is the common view. There is something much more to what he is saying. That is why I asked the question about traction. It turns the mind on itself for a stereoscopic view of how we see everything.binocular wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:44 amYou keep repeating what he says, and there are many other people who also repeat what he says, that makes for at least a provisional temple and lineage.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:12 amHow do you arrive at J. Krishnamurti teaching a religion? Is there a JK temple? Path? Doctrine? Lineage? Of course, people will parrot what he says, but where are his precepts?
As for path, doctrine, and precepts: What he says is doctrine. That he teaches a path comes from him talking about the path, even if it is ex negativo. The precepts can be inferred from what he says (and you profusely quote).
Take the whole sentence: "It doesn't get any traction in my mind, because it's just another religion, even while it purports not to be one."So, in your view, anything that is a religion gets no traction? Yet, you are here on a Buddhist site. Please explain this great mystery.
When people say things to the effect "Ours is not merely a religion, we don't teach mere opinions, what we say is The Truth", they are just one is so many who say such things. In fact, saying such things is very common. People who say such things should sort things out between themselves before they can rightfully expect others to listen to them. That's why, when such a person preaches to me, I want to tell them to first take it out with all the others who also claim to know The Truth, and then, when there's only one left, they should come talking to me.
- Crazy cloud
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am
Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.
I wonder about how much time critics has put themselves "standing under" JK thoughts before concluding/judging?
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
-
- Posts: 1350
- Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am
Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
I have no idea what you are talking about. Why do you come to a Buddhist forum if you have no interest in religious ideas and don't even deeply consider what is being discussed? You openly criticize monks whom you feel condescend toward women and that Theravada is basically male positive. I might even agree with you but it doesn't explain your interest in Buddhism which is a religion, yet its adherents display attitudes that you are against. Are you masochistic? Why would you subject yourself to any of this? I get no sense of passion from you except for the things that bug you. Sorry to be so frank.binocular wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:44 amTake the whole sentence: "It doesn't get any traction in my mind, because it's just another religion, even while it purports not to be one."So, in your view, anything that is a religion gets no traction? Yet, you are here on a Buddhist site. Please explain this great mystery.
When people say things to the effect "Ours is not merely a religion, we don't teach mere opinions, what we say is The Truth", they are just one is so many who say such things. In fact, saying such things is very common. People who say such things should sort things out between themselves before they can rightfully expect others to listen to them. That's why, when such a person preaches to me, I want to tell them to first take it out with all the others who also claim to know The Truth, and then, when there's only one left, they should come talking to me.
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- Posts: 1350
- Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am
Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.
I think it's a very good point, Crazy cloud. In my case, I read his books for 3-4 years trying to understand what he was saying and then, one day, my eyes opened widely, unexpectedly, and decisively, amidst an internal crisis I had been struggling with all my life.Crazy cloud wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:08 am I wonder about how much time critics has put themselves "standing under" JK thoughts before concluding/judging?
Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
Pretty much every religion, spiritual path or philosophy does that. It's nothing special.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:45 amI think you are projecting a lot of what you've seen in religion on to JK and probably U.G. as well. This is the common view. There is something much more to what he is saying. That is why I asked the question about traction. It turns the mind on itself for a stereoscopic view of how we see everything.
Then read again.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:15 amI have no idea what you are talking about.binocular wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:44 amTake the whole sentence: "It doesn't get any traction in my mind, because it's just another religion, even while it purports not to be one."So, in your view, anything that is a religion gets no traction? Yet, you are here on a Buddhist site. Please explain this great mystery.
When people say things to the effect "Ours is not merely a religion, we don't teach mere opinions, what we say is The Truth", they are just one is so many who say such things. In fact, saying such things is very common. People who say such things should sort things out between themselves before they can rightfully expect others to listen to them. That's why, when such a person preaches to me, I want to tell them to first take it out with all the others who also claim to know The Truth, and then, when there's only one left, they should come talking to me.
I'm not going to defend things you merely imagine I said or stances you merely imagine I hold.Why do you come to a Buddhist forum if you have no interest in religious ideas and don't even deeply consider what is being discussed?
You openly criticize monks whom you feel condescend toward women and that Theravada is basically male positive.
Copy-paste where I said that (the underlined part). Just because I'm female doesn't mean I'm a feminist.
You're not frank, you're just assuming a lot of things about me that are not true.I might even agree with you but it doesn't explain your interest in Buddhism which is a religion, yet its adherents display attitudes that you are against.
Are you masochistic? Why would you subject yourself to any of this? I get no sense of passion from you except for the things that bug you. Sorry to be so frank.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.
To think of that op quote then freedom is Chaos. Origin of everything. Its logical, that there is no path to it, if it is everything.
https://www.greekmythology.com/Other_Go ... chaos.html
Chaos was, according to Greek mythology, the origin of everything, and the first thing that ever existed. It was the primordial void, the source out of which everything was created, including the universe and the gods. The first primordial deities that emerged out of Chaos were Gaea (earth), Tartarus (underworld) and Eros (love), while later Erebus (darkness) and Nyx (night) also popped out. According to Hesiod, Chaos was also a place, much like Tartarus and the Heavens later, beyond which the Titans lived.
- Crazy cloud
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am
Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.
Well, I thought you were one that had put neccesery effort into understanding (standing under), easy to see by the way you respond.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:21 amI think it's a very good point, Crazy cloud. In my case, I read his books for 3-4 years trying to understand what he was saying and then, one day, my eyes opened widely, unexpectedly, and decisively, amidst an internal crisis I had been struggling with all my life.Crazy cloud wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:08 am I wonder about how much time critics has put themselves "standing under" JK thoughts before concluding/judging?
I haven't counted hours listening, and also done some reading, but mostly I love to "hear" how the mind of that precious teacher moved. Especially sweet to listen when he had meetings with younger people and kids, adorable and very patient, like genuinely good teachers often are imo
Be well!
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.
There is a path or a way to discover estimated entity. Basically like discovery of black holes, noone sees it but it is still there. It is affecting environment. So you can think there is something.
That is if you have craving then there is a way to stop it, but you won't use craving as path, you will need find the cause. But if you move away from feeling craving then you also are away from the environment near where the cause is.
So, that is the counter to the OP quote.
That is if you have craving then there is a way to stop it, but you won't use craving as path, you will need find the cause. But if you move away from feeling craving then you also are away from the environment near where the cause is.
So, that is the counter to the OP quote.
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.
I had the good fortune to discover him as a young man and also to hear him speak. It was a special moment to see him in full force.Crazy cloud wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:20 pmWell, I thought you were one that had put neccesery effort into understanding (standing under), easy to see by the way you respond.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:21 amI think it's a very good point, Crazy cloud. In my case, I read his books for 3-4 years trying to understand what he was saying and then, one day, my eyes opened widely, unexpectedly, and decisively, amidst an internal crisis I had been struggling with all my life.Crazy cloud wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:08 am I wonder about how much time critics has put themselves "standing under" JK thoughts before concluding/judging?
I haven't counted hours listening, and also done some reading, but mostly I love to "hear" how the mind of that precious teacher moved. Especially sweet to listen when he had meetings with younger people and kids, adorable and very patient, like genuinely good teachers often are imo
Be well!
- Crazy cloud
- Posts: 930
- Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am
Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.
Awesome, I remember as a child about 8 yrs, sitting in the living room together with my parents, and on television they showed a short documentary of this remarkable teacher.There and then I saw on their faces that they didn't "get it", but they were impressed by his appearance. Later, and about 6 years ago one of his teachings flew by on youtube, and I had the time and luck to check out what it was, and after 5 minutes into the lecture I heard him say something like: If you think you can live like a pig, and also get good results from meditating, you can forget it!Saengnapha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:54 pmI had the good fortune to discover him as a young man and also to hear him speak. It was a special moment to see him in full force.Crazy cloud wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:20 pmWell, I thought you were one that had put neccesery effort into understanding (standing under), easy to see by the way you respond.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:21 am
I think it's a very good point, Crazy cloud. In my case, I read his books for 3-4 years trying to understand what he was saying and then, one day, my eyes opened widely, unexpectedly, and decisively, amidst an internal crisis I had been struggling with all my life.
I haven't counted hours listening, and also done some reading, but mostly I love to "hear" how the mind of that precious teacher moved. Especially sweet to listen when he had meetings with younger people and kids, adorable and very patient, like genuinely good teachers often are imo
Be well!
I don't remember getting anything else from that lecture, but that was a very good advice or tough teaching, hats off!
Very true
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you
We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters
Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.
When you call yourself blah blah blah you are being violent? This is nonsense. I think it shows that it he was correct to not establish any teaching or doctrine.
chownah
chownah