J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
fornoxe
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by fornoxe »

I try to find true, no fight. I don't say km is right. I try to find witch I can be agree with him. Here we are not in ego fight please.



So what keeps you away from doing what Krishnamurti said right now(test it out)? You can be in your room observe sensations as they are..are you now free and happy, biggest happiness ever?

I think that keep me away is several things. One I don't realize I am no one. The ego and my identity who work for more than 30years hold the process. And the fear of unknown should be here also. Become no coming back is possible.

hmm what is more important is it coming aware of mind what is conscious of 'what is' or notice when mind wheren't conscious of 'what is'?

I think, you are in fact no conscious anymore. You have information from senses. You will fell them. You are aware of them. But it can not be describe with word. When you see, you see, when you ear, you ear. No process about what we (the senses) see.

If you come aware of mind what is conscious of 'what is' then what, what i should do then??

You should live.

i get it that he used the reasoning to outline why suppressing the senses is contradictory, conflicting, sorrowful etc.

SO,
He says there is 'never asking for the more' if mind is conscious of 'what is' because we are asking is there a holistic awareness. Basically when you are aware of your mind being conscious then you are enquiring about is there a holistic awareness,
namely:
'And where there is awareness of the senses in themselves-there is no center-in which there is awareness of the wholeness'
---
i get what JK says and what he points on.

1. being aware of mind being conscious

I think the idea of being aware of conscious is not the right sentence. Just realize the conscious is just a accumulation of past. Each time we act, you and me, we act from previous act. We should understand the thinking process.

2. while at it, you are looking for the holistic without center point awareness

You are not looking for the holistic no center stuff. Me and you does not exist. How can we look for holistic life?

3. get it done, make it happen

We live since millions of year with an idea about center. It's everywhere and the root of this thinking is so deep we don't realize. I am fully agree when I say that : each time on my day, each seconds, I act from the center of me. The control is so total. It is unbelievable.

the point is why suppressing of the senses is contradictory is because when you are aware of the mind being conscious of "what is" at that time you don't seek. The contradictory part is of seeking and suppressing the senses to stop seeking.

We can use the castle simile. With 6 doors for 6 senses. And the castle the I.

We know because your mind is full of vanity hanger etc... The I is the problem. So we say (I say) I must release the I
Buddhism say to release the I we have to put guard in each 6 doors because it's because them the ego is created.
So, the castle, to remove himself, create guard in each doors. But do you believe the I , the castle want to destroy himself? I don't think so.
Furthermore, a conflict will appear between the castle who want to grow up and the control guard senses who want remove that.

But the most hard things to realize is the following thing : the 5 body senses are easy to know. But Bouddha ans krishnamurti Say the same thing about the 6 senses : the mind and ideas (reasoning and cognition) (mano-ayatana).

This Mano ayatana took the control. I like to call it intelligence.

Intelligence will be here, Everytime. Because I need to plan to go in an another country. Need to have money. Intelligence is here for that.

Mano ayatana have to realize himself he is the problem. he creates problem. Because she likes problem. It's him f*** job !!

Can you realize how tricky is this??


Another thing I see, a problem about this senses guards. We are agree from senses, working together, ego is created.
So Buddhism say control. Restrain.
But even we close the door at 50% for exemple. Still 50% will come inside. Even with 1% coming in, the mind should be able to create ego no? It is an idea. Not from any books. So, first we stop to live in this world, we reject him. We not create suffering because we are very wise and we develop equanimity. But this kind of reaction from suffering is kind of escape. We don't want to suffer. This is a fact. So we remove everything even if the live is with it. But could we find a way where Love and kindness, without ego, is present. Everytime. And live the life in the same time.

In the same time we understand themself, we have to understand what is life.

Nibbana, ultimate peace, I don't know what it is, especially after death. But as a non being, can we help and love people after death? It's my question. Because I don't peace and nibbana if it's outside the feeling of love.

I am in Sri Lanka since few months with the idea to become a monk. I left everything I had in my country .
Monks say : people who live inside normal are sad. This is true.
But I say monks are also suffering.

I want to become a monk, have a religious life, but not cutting from any kind of life. I know rainbow gathering I made 4 of them. I think I will live inside them. An another way is possible .

Sorry for my life story
auto
Posts: 4579
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by auto »

fornoxe wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:27 am
I think that keep me away is several things. One I don't realize I am no one. The ego and my identity who work for more than 30years hold the process. And the fear of unknown should be here also. Become no coming back is possible.
.
I think, you are in fact no conscious anymore. You have information from senses. You will fell them. You are aware of them. But it can not be describe with word. When you see, you see, when you ear, you ear. No process about what we (the senses) see.
.
I think the idea of being aware of conscious is not the right sentence. Just realize the conscious is just a accumulation of past. Each time we act, you and me, we act from previous act. We should understand the thinking process.
.
You are not looking for the holistic no center stuff. Me and you does not exist. How can we look for holistic life?
.
We live since millions of year with an idea about center. It's everywhere and the root of this thinking is so deep we don't realize. I am fully agree when I say that : each time on my day, each seconds, I act from the center of me. The control is so total. It is unbelievable.
.
We can use the castle simile. With 6 doors for 6 senses. And the castle the I.

We know because your mind is full of vanity hanger etc... The I is the problem. So we say (I say) I must release the I
Buddhism say to release the I we have to put guard in each 6 doors because it's because them the ego is created.
So, the castle, to remove himself, create guard in each doors. But do you believe the I , the castle want to destroy himself? I don't think so.
Furthermore, a conflict will appear between the castle who want to grow up and the control guard senses who want remove that.

But the most hard things to realize is the following thing : the 5 body senses are easy to know. But Bouddha ans krishnamurti Say the same thing about the 6 senses : the mind and ideas (reasoning and cognition) (mano-ayatana).

This Mano ayatana took the control. I like to call it intelligence.

Intelligence will be here, Everytime. Because I need to plan to go in an another country. Need to have money. Intelligence is here for that.

Mano ayatana have to realize himself he is the problem. he creates problem. Because she likes problem. It's him f*** job !!

Can you realize how tricky is this??


Another thing I see, a problem about this senses guards. We are agree from senses, working together, ego is created.
So Buddhism say control. Restrain.
But even we close the door at 50% for exemple. Still 50% will come inside. Even with 1% coming in, the mind should be able to create ego no? It is an idea. Not from any books. So, first we stop to live in this world, we reject him. We not create suffering because we are very wise and we develop equanimity. But this kind of reaction from suffering is kind of escape. We don't want to suffer. This is a fact. So we remove everything even if the live is with it. But could we find a way where Love and kindness, without ego, is present. Everytime. And live the life in the same time.

In the same time we understand themself, we have to understand what is life.

Nibbana, ultimate peace, I don't know what it is, especially after death. But as a non being, can we help and love people after death? It's my question. Because I don't peace and nibbana if it's outside the feeling of love.

I am in Sri Lanka since few months with the idea to become a monk. I left everything I had in my country .
Monks say : people who live inside normal are sad. This is true.
But I say monks are also suffering.

I want to become a monk, have a religious life, but not cutting from any kind of life. I know rainbow gathering I made 4 of them. I think I will live inside them. An another way is possible .

Sorry for my life story
I have no issue with "i need realize there is no one"
I don't just cling to self, i cultivate the sense of self or awareness manually too. I come aware in intervals and occasionally i notice that i come aware.
when i notice that i have come aware that means i have gotten a hand on to self identification. When i move, walk, sit around i know i am moving around etc, it is 1st out of 4 of Sati. After that when i come aware energy will fall from the forehead downwards, basically you by pressure, discipline you force substance upwards and at node points you come aware. Fulfill objectives and things happen and then by that you by default know that you have do this discipline, it can last short or long time etc, but the thing what does the work is pretty much asmr's effect, like some sound will cause burning in belly and by that also you notice desire(sideroad to failure) but you don't give in to desire but keep on burning till its exhausted.

like if you feel chill between your skin, then thinking about cold and being in that cold weather it will fulfill the objective, the chill in skin is sign how you can fast detect correct asmr.(not sure if it is this asmr but they are similar)

But the main thing is you get the rupajati, an ability to have imagination what is equal to real, it will produce effect in body, not directly, there will be a contact(from basically calling it out repeatedly) and thing arises and you need get a hold on it, it stabilizes and then can exhaust.
---
as said i have no issues with the control either, or that i am doing the things i do.

I think what you are doing is solving philosophical problems: Like knife can't stab itself or eye can't see itself.

Things are not that linear how you say that the self or I is the problem. IIIIIIIIIII, you can write without using I or self but the entire story can be about you stuck in desire produced delusion and that layer is projected onto message.

solution for the problem, look at female boobs and it activate the chamber(vinnana constituent or dhatu) and you need hold that opening open and lead the substance winds upwards. Because the delusion is like chill within your skin, it a sign and female boobs are the real thing with motion or agenda..you don't have a dhamma to realize it and open cavity on your own at first ton of times and even if you can then its much easier to use these helpers.
That above were from a place of meditation, but when you walk on a real place then it happen autonomously for a millisecond, you don't have to know about it, but things get fulfilled for the next things..otherwords deep in rebirth becaue of not recognizing the process before that when its on a body.
Through senses your body gets affected you don't know about it, you may carry knowledge what you don't have realized by yourself vice versa with bad environments. There are reasons behind exhausting.
fornoxe
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by fornoxe »

Sounds interesting but :
- I read several times and I am sure to get everything.
- I use Google translate without satisfaction.

Especially the last part with the cavity... :shrug:
auto
Posts: 4579
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by auto »

auto wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:30 pm
fornoxe wrote: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:28 am I upload this file for 30days

https://ufile.io/cs395

I think everything is inside this 45ko krishnamurti's extract book.

My own extract from extract

You want more and more and more and more, and ‘‘the more’’ means that the past sensation has not been sufficient.....A mind which is seeking the ‘more’ is never conscious of ‘what is’ because it is always living in the ‘more’-in what it would like to be, never in ‘what is’. ....meditation is actually seeing ‘what is’...when no identification....not identified by thought.....There are only sensation.
So we are asking, is there a holistic awareness of all the senses, therefore, there is never asking for the ‘more’. I wonder if you follow all this ?. Are we together in this even partially?. and where there is this total-fully aware-of all the senses, awareness of it-not you are aware of it....the awareness of the senses in themselves-then there is no center-in which there is awareness of the wholeness. If you consider it, you will see that to suppress the senses...is contradictory, conflicting, sorrowful....To understand the truth you must have complete sensitivity. Do you understand Sirs?

I am in discussion with a monk who want me inside ... Of course. I don't say neither no. But what khrismurti say is so clear for me.

Every one know the simile sutta about castle. I try to find it...
So what keeps you away from doing what Krishnamurti said right now(test it out)? You can be in your room observe sensations as they are..are you now free and happy, biggest happiness ever?

hmm what is more important is it coming aware of mind what is conscious of 'what is' or notice when mind wheren't conscious of 'what is'?
If you come aware of mind what is conscious of 'what is' then what, what i should do then??

i get it that he used the reasoning to outline why suppressing the senses is contradictory, conflicting, sorrowful etc.

SO,
He says there is 'never asking for the more' if mind is conscious of 'what is' because we are asking is there a holistic awareness. Basically when you are aware of your mind being conscious then you are enquiring about is there a holistic awareness,
namely:
'And where there is awareness of the senses in themselves-there is no center-in which there is awareness of the wholeness'
---
i get what JK says and what he points on.

1. being aware of mind being conscious
2. while at it, you are looking for the holistic without center point awareness
3. get it done, make it happen

i can make peace with JK..but how much you see his adherers say this, well you have lots of different ideas what JK says..
as i understand,
the point is why suppressing of the senses is contradictory is because when you are aware of the mind being conscious of "what is" at that time you don't seek. The contradictory part is of seeking and suppressing the senses to stop seeking.
the green part just repeats the 3 steps, but have said already once then the repeat is different aura and coming.

fornoxe wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:17 am Sounds interesting but :
- I read several times and I am sure to get everything.
- I use Google translate without satisfaction.

Especially the last part with the cavity... :shrug:
So how many times you have repeated and what you repeat?

the blue part is gesture. and its now your time, but incase the receiver doesn't "get it" then there is repeat. Basically he neutralizes it by himself as a result you don't have to do anything. There is nothing to figure out, you don't have to "get it" with the carpenter or builder mind(when its done already).
fornoxe
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by fornoxe »

You have to do something : accept to live in an another way of mind. But people does not want because there is insecurity.

K. Say : see the world. See your mind. And see the relationship. Your mind is just a f*** war Everytime. Do you want this war do you like it? So make change happen.
How change? See and analyze each think you have. Understand them. And then your mind will become quiet because you know.

When you have a think, you already know it. Though are just repeating something who know already.
Zolbec
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:19 pm

Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by Zolbec »

Hey guys, what do you have to say about JK's teachings? Do they have any value, or are they a waste of time?
auto
Posts: 4579
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by auto »

Zolbec wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:35 pm Hey guys, what do you have to say about JK's teachings? Do they have any value, or are they a waste of time?
it is not waste of time, but he doesn't say much other than what he says in that OP quote



Close message from that video:
can we observe a mountain without single word.
Find out if we can look at world without reaction and then find out if can look at all that network of words not interfering our observation.
to me it seem all he talks is is about this aspect.
"careful watching", "looking at the world like you lookin at the world first time", "brain is tremendously attentive".. "this watching is not egocentric movement"
Imo its the infamous "moment of now"

"how we move from egocentric thinking about oneself to that "careful looking"? he says it is a wrong question because if you say you must stop being self-centered then the 'must' is still in the same category as 'thinking about oneself'.
Answer is that the answer is in the question, the answer reveals itself, perceiving and observing is not time, whilst the egocentric thinking is time..timebinding quality is essentially the self

also a quote on this thread, what he thinks what is accumulated knowledge and what is wisdom but eventually is about same thing as above said.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=31576&start=30#p466207
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