J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Saengnapha
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by Saengnapha » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:43 am

auto wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:07 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:13 am
An excellent quote, Crazy Cloud. This is it in a nutshell, but this is so radical and unacceptable to our mind that we turn to 'something' to save us because that is part of the mind's conditioning. This is why UG constantly harped on the fact that there was nothing one could do to bring this about because all action and thought is conditioned by the past and only leads to more of the same. Then, he said, there might be a chance for this great event in nature to take place, that wipes you clean of all psychological suffering and identification with a self, the natural state of man. This so called knowledge of oneself is not some kind of mystery to be solved. It is the seeing of what you call yourself and how it is constructed. This process permanently stops when there is nothing to be done. It is not even imaginable.
---
This is why UG constantly harped on the fact that there was nothing one could do to bring this about because all action and thought is conditioned by the past and only leads to more of the same.
unless you use will power, because you use then fresh thoughts what are not past. Why even use past and future, since when you don't use will power you "sleep" your mind is in heart or body, if you use will power you use head and need watch were you step, hence there is a path you actually need to learn to step on.
I don't think there is such a thing as 'fresh thoughts'.

Saengnapha
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by Saengnapha » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:48 am

auto wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:41 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:21 am
Crazy cloud wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:08 am
I wonder about how much time critics has put themselves "standing under" JK thoughts before concluding/judging?
I think it's a very good point, Crazy cloud. In my case, I read his books for 3-4 years trying to understand what he was saying and then, one day, my eyes opened widely, unexpectedly, and decisively, amidst an internal crisis I had been struggling with all my life.
Do JK has some kind of path model, like x number of nanas what contemplatives circle?
I see even my dog circle regularly between different moods. So its a valid argument.

I understand the spontaneous nature of realizations, but it doesn't mean there is no path, it can mean there is no immediate result of your decision or action. A bad state what we experience could be because of past decision. I can't let go or forget thoughts solely because they are past, these thoughts are because of past actions.
As far as I can see, JK had no path except to inquire into the nature of self, thinking, and what we call mind. There were no levels, attainments, or meditative practice that he advocated. And, neither did UG. The biggest difference was UG talking about the natural state as how he functioned after his own realization.

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Crazy cloud
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by Crazy cloud » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:17 am

The path of JK might be to regard the present moment as a personal present, and then it's obvious to anybody how one open a present like that ...

:smile:
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

auto
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by auto » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:46 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:48 am
auto wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:41 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:21 am


I think it's a very good point, Crazy cloud. In my case, I read his books for 3-4 years trying to understand what he was saying and then, one day, my eyes opened widely, unexpectedly, and decisively, amidst an internal crisis I had been struggling with all my life.
Do JK has some kind of path model, like x number of nanas what contemplatives circle?
I see even my dog circle regularly between different moods. So its a valid argument.

I understand the spontaneous nature of realizations, but it doesn't mean there is no path, it can mean there is no immediate result of your decision or action. A bad state what we experience could be because of past decision. I can't let go or forget thoughts solely because they are past, these thoughts are because of past actions.
As far as I can see, JK had no path except to inquire into the nature of self, thinking, and what we call mind. There were no levels, attainments, or meditative practice that he advocated. And, neither did UG. The biggest difference was UG talking about the natural state as how he functioned after his own realization.
Ok thanks,

http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/about-kris ... speech.php
I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others. This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley. If you would attain to the mountain-top you must pass through the valley, climb the steeps, unafraid of the dangerous precipices.
So how do i reach to truth if there is no path? how i make that effort?

that is the issue i also reached with reading about mindfulness. Just roundabout talk and no answers, like watching yet another documentary and at the end nothing still clear.
apparently life is same, it is lukewarm leading to nowhere.

So what to do then? it is to get cold and become sick. Put hands literally into cold water or let the cold wind get under the skin, there is a sensation happen, it is sometimes only shivers in lower back etc but the point is that shivers and the sensation what accompany with it is what matters.

too nutty? nope, if you sit long enough in one place there rises burning heat, but that is like cold feeling, it is not yet under the skin or penetrated through bones, there rises a heat what softens the flesh and you will sweat and there is also a sensation accompany, that sensation is important.

or you work so long till you are utterly exhausted and barely can walk, legs feel like boiled macaroni, there is sensation appear what is important.

or you read something too long there rises a stage where you not unable to read further it is painful mentally that you going to faint if you read more, there is a sensation accompany what is crucial for further path.

Then go read a Sutta about why it is better to die sitting on red iron rods having harrowing pains than having good time with females and their body warmth.

So i wonder if JK would agree with me? and curious what would be his response to me on one of his satsangs?

Saengnapha
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by Saengnapha » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:42 pm

auto wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:46 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:48 am
auto wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:41 am


Do JK has some kind of path model, like x number of nanas what contemplatives circle?
I see even my dog circle regularly between different moods. So its a valid argument.

I understand the spontaneous nature of realizations, but it doesn't mean there is no path, it can mean there is no immediate result of your decision or action. A bad state what we experience could be because of past decision. I can't let go or forget thoughts solely because they are past, these thoughts are because of past actions.
As far as I can see, JK had no path except to inquire into the nature of self, thinking, and what we call mind. There were no levels, attainments, or meditative practice that he advocated. And, neither did UG. The biggest difference was UG talking about the natural state as how he functioned after his own realization.
Ok thanks,

http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/about-kris ... speech.php
I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others. This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley. If you would attain to the mountain-top you must pass through the valley, climb the steeps, unafraid of the dangerous precipices.
So how do i reach to truth if there is no path? how i make that effort?

that is the issue i also reached with reading about mindfulness. Just roundabout talk and no answers, like watching yet another documentary and at the end nothing still clear.
apparently life is same, it is lukewarm leading to nowhere.

So what to do then? it is to get cold and become sick. Put hands literally into cold water or let the cold wind get under the skin, there is a sensation happen, it is sometimes only shivers in lower back etc but the point is that shivers and the sensation what accompany with it is what matters.

too nutty? nope, if you sit long enough in one place there rises burning heat, but that is like cold feeling, it is not yet under the skin or penetrated through bones, there rises a heat what softens the flesh and you will sweat and there is also a sensation accompany, that sensation is important.

or you work so long till you are utterly exhausted and barely can walk, legs feel like boiled macaroni, there is sensation appear what is important.

or you read something too long there rises a stage where you not unable to read further it is painful mentally that you going to faint if you read more, there is a sensation accompany what is crucial for further path.

Then go read a Sutta about why it is better to die sitting on red iron rods having harrowing pains than having good time with females and their body warmth.

So i wonder if JK would agree with me? and curious what would be his response to me on one of his satsangs?
I understand what you are referring to. The problem that the 2K's put forth is this: You have read/heard about Truth, Enlightenment, etc., and it has been associated with following a path to its discovery for thousands of years. This path that is talked about is supposed to lead the practitioner to enlightenment if you follow the directions. At the same time, they all say that the practitioner, self, needs to come to an end. Why would you further the cause of the self to attain something when that very self should come to an end? How can this possibly happen that you use the self, a supposed illusion, to attain Truth which is supposed to be timeless and which the self, a creation of time is supposed to attain? Something has gotten lost in the translation that these religions put forth. The burden is on the believer to shed these beliefs and look for themselves at their own state. This means the use of teachings, philosophy, words, concepts, must be put aside in order to see what this creation of path and attainment is all about. Neither of the K's would suggest reading anything that the Buddha or themselves have said, putting all of them aside and examining for oneself what is really going on. Many Buddhist masters have even claimed that there is no Buddha, Teaching, or Sangha that exists. Were they just madmen? Personally, I don't think we have any idea of what Truth is, just what it isn't. We are only computers talking to another computer.

auto
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by auto » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:55 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:42 pm
I understand what you are referring to. The problem that the 2K's put forth is this: You have read/heard about Truth, Enlightenment, etc., and it has been associated with following a path to its discovery for thousands of years. This path that is talked about is supposed to lead the practitioner to enlightenment if you follow the directions. At the same time, they all say that the practitioner, self, needs to come to an end. Why would you further the cause of the self to attain something when that very self should come to an end? How can this possibly happen that you use the self, a supposed illusion, to attain Truth which is supposed to be timeless and which the self, a creation of time is supposed to attain? Something has gotten lost in the translation that these religions put forth. The burden is on the believer to shed these beliefs and look for themselves at their own state. This means the use of teachings, philosophy, words, concepts, must be put aside in order to see what this creation of path and attainment is all about. Neither of the K's would suggest reading anything that the Buddha or themselves have said, putting all of them aside and examining for oneself what is really going on. Many Buddhist masters have even claimed that there is no Buddha, Teaching, or Sangha that exists. Were they just madmen? Personally, I don't think we have any idea of what Truth is, just what it isn't. We are only computers talking to another computer.
wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)
Ven. Kotthita: "How is it, friend Sariputta, is ... the ear the fetter of sounds or are sounds the fetter of the ear?..."
Ven. Sariputta: "Friend Kotthita, the ... ear is not the fetter of sounds nor are sounds the fetter of the ear, but rather the desire and lust that arise there in dependence on both: that is the fetter there...."
---

So the self isn't a fetter, it is the desires what rise in dependence on the identity view.
Sensual desire isn't a fetter its the desire what rises in dependence on the sensual desire.

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mikenz66
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by mikenz66 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:49 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:42 pm
The problem that the 2K's put forth is this: You have read/heard about Truth, Enlightenment, etc., and it has been associated with following a path to its discovery for thousands of years. This path that is talked about is supposed to lead the practitioner to enlightenment if you follow the directions. At the same time, they all say that the practitioner, self, needs to come to an end. Why would you further the cause of the self to attain something when that very self should come to an end? How can this possibly happen that you use the self, a supposed illusion, to attain Truth which is supposed to be timeless and which the self, a creation of time is supposed to attain? Something has gotten lost in the translation that these religions put forth.
Well, of course, the Buddha and his followers addressed this in various teachings...
“If that’s so, Master Ānanda, then it’s an endless path, and not one with an end, for it’s impossible that one could abandon desire by means of desire.”

“In that case, brahman, let me cross-question you on this matter. Answer as you see fit. What do you think? Didn’t you first have desire, thinking, ‘I’ll go to the monastery,’ and then when you reached the monastery, wasn’t that particular desire allayed?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Didn’t you first have persistence, thinking, ‘I’ll go to the monastery,’ and then when you reached the monastery, wasn’t that particular persistence allayed?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Didn’t you first have the intent, thinking, ‘I’ll go to the monastery,’ and then when you reached the monastery, wasn’t that particular intent allayed?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Didn’t you first have (an act of) discrimination, thinking, ‘I’ll go to the monastery,’ and then when you reached the monastery, wasn’t that particular act of discrimination allayed?”

“Yes, sir.”

“So it is with an arahant whose effluents are ended, who has reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who is released through right gnosis. Whatever desire he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular desire is allayed. Whatever persistence he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular persistence is allayed. Whatever intent he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular intent is allayed. Whatever discrimination he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular discrimination is allayed. So what do you think, brahman? Is this an endless path, or one with an end?”

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN51_15.html
:heart:
Mike

Saengnapha
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:52 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:49 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:42 pm
The problem that the 2K's put forth is this: You have read/heard about Truth, Enlightenment, etc., and it has been associated with following a path to its discovery for thousands of years. This path that is talked about is supposed to lead the practitioner to enlightenment if you follow the directions. At the same time, they all say that the practitioner, self, needs to come to an end. Why would you further the cause of the self to attain something when that very self should come to an end? How can this possibly happen that you use the self, a supposed illusion, to attain Truth which is supposed to be timeless and which the self, a creation of time is supposed to attain? Something has gotten lost in the translation that these religions put forth.
Well, of course, the Buddha and his followers addressed this in various teachings...
“If that’s so, Master Ānanda, then it’s an endless path, and not one with an end, for it’s impossible that one could abandon desire by means of desire.”

“In that case, brahman, let me cross-question you on this matter. Answer as you see fit. What do you think? Didn’t you first have desire, thinking, ‘I’ll go to the monastery,’ and then when you reached the monastery, wasn’t that particular desire allayed?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Didn’t you first have persistence, thinking, ‘I’ll go to the monastery,’ and then when you reached the monastery, wasn’t that particular persistence allayed?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Didn’t you first have the intent, thinking, ‘I’ll go to the monastery,’ and then when you reached the monastery, wasn’t that particular intent allayed?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Didn’t you first have (an act of) discrimination, thinking, ‘I’ll go to the monastery,’ and then when you reached the monastery, wasn’t that particular act of discrimination allayed?”

“Yes, sir.”

“So it is with an arahant whose effluents are ended, who has reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who is released through right gnosis. Whatever desire he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular desire is allayed. Whatever persistence he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular persistence is allayed. Whatever intent he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular intent is allayed. Whatever discrimination he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular discrimination is allayed. So what do you think, brahman? Is this an endless path, or one with an end?”

https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN51_15.html
:heart:
Mike
It's a complex issue, Mike. Your quotes still don't address the issue of time. Until that moment of 'seeing', everything that was attempted, thought about, stops. The whole notion of a 'person moving in time' is gone. As long as you are trying to attain anything, you haven't come to terms with this movement. Spin it any way you want, you are either free or not. There is no middle ground in this. It doesn't hold up to logic. Plus, I don't trust 2500 years of interpretation to lead me anywhere.

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mikenz66
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:22 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:52 am
Your quotes still don't address the issue of time. Until that moment of 'seeing', everything that was attempted, thought about, stops. The whole notion of a 'person moving in time' is gone. As long as you are trying to attain anything, you haven't come to terms with this movement. Spin it any way you want, you are either free or not. There is no middle ground in this. It doesn't hold up to logic.
How do you know that it will play out like that? I thought this was something that couldn't be put into words?
Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:52 am
Plus, I don't trust 2500 years of interpretation to lead me anywhere.
So why do you come to a Buddhist Forum, then?

:heart:
Mike

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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by auto » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:46 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:42 pm

I understand what you are referring to. The problem that the 2K's put forth is this: You have read/heard about Truth, Enlightenment, etc., and it has been associated with following a path to its discovery for thousands of years. This path that is talked about is supposed to lead the practitioner to enlightenment if you follow the directions. At the same time, they all say that the practitioner, self, needs to come to an end. Why would you further the cause of the self to attain something when that very self should come to an end? How can this possibly happen that you use the self, a supposed illusion, to attain Truth which is supposed to be timeless and which the self, a creation of time is supposed to attain? Something has gotten lost in the translation that these religions put forth. The burden is on the believer to shed these beliefs and look for themselves at their own state. This means the use of teachings, philosophy, words, concepts, must be put aside in order to see what this creation of path and attainment is all about. Neither of the K's would suggest reading anything that the Buddha or themselves have said, putting all of them aside and examining for oneself what is really going on. Many Buddhist masters have even claimed that there is no Buddha, Teaching, or Sangha that exists. Were they just madmen? Personally, I don't think we have any idea of what Truth is, just what it isn't. We are only computers talking to another computer.
You need put your body into certain position there isn't a zero position, you have to put your eyes somehow, your mind constantly moves around not stay in one place. Desires have already forced you into a frame what you need move every once in a while to relieve suffering..
Like a nightmare, you can use any trick, there is no way out. You can investigate mind so much you want, but you won't change into a pokemon this way.

You need ask help and get an upgrade. With the intent of getting a subtle body at least some magical substance into body what starts change dna you want to see real progress on a tangible/physical level.

Saengnapha
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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:57 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:22 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:52 am
Your quotes still don't address the issue of time. Until that moment of 'seeing', everything that was attempted, thought about, stops. The whole notion of a 'person moving in time' is gone. As long as you are trying to attain anything, you haven't come to terms with this movement. Spin it any way you want, you are either free or not. There is no middle ground in this. It doesn't hold up to logic.
How do you know that it will play out like that? I thought this was something that couldn't be put into words?
Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:52 am
Plus, I don't trust 2500 years of interpretation to lead me anywhere.
So why do you come to a Buddhist Forum, then?

:heart:
Mike
Because the subject is a universal one and it interests me.

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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:59 pm

auto wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:46 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:42 pm

I understand what you are referring to. The problem that the 2K's put forth is this: You have read/heard about Truth, Enlightenment, etc., and it has been associated with following a path to its discovery for thousands of years. This path that is talked about is supposed to lead the practitioner to enlightenment if you follow the directions. At the same time, they all say that the practitioner, self, needs to come to an end. Why would you further the cause of the self to attain something when that very self should come to an end? How can this possibly happen that you use the self, a supposed illusion, to attain Truth which is supposed to be timeless and which the self, a creation of time is supposed to attain? Something has gotten lost in the translation that these religions put forth. The burden is on the believer to shed these beliefs and look for themselves at their own state. This means the use of teachings, philosophy, words, concepts, must be put aside in order to see what this creation of path and attainment is all about. Neither of the K's would suggest reading anything that the Buddha or themselves have said, putting all of them aside and examining for oneself what is really going on. Many Buddhist masters have even claimed that there is no Buddha, Teaching, or Sangha that exists. Were they just madmen? Personally, I don't think we have any idea of what Truth is, just what it isn't. We are only computers talking to another computer.
You need put your body into certain position there isn't a zero position, you have to put your eyes somehow, your mind constantly moves around not stay in one place. Desires have already forced you into a frame what you need move every once in a while to relieve suffering..
Like a nightmare, you can use any trick, there is no way out. You can investigate mind so much you want, but you won't change into a pokemon this way.

You need ask help and get an upgrade. With the intent of getting a subtle body at least some magical substance into body what starts change dna you want to see real progress on a tangible/physical level.
I don't see it like this.

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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by auto » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:08 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:59 pm
I don't see it like this.
well there is a video in youtube JK talking about meditation. That meditation practice becomes a routine and makes the mind up leading to mechanical mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARbciOozq0

at 4:11 he says i haven't done any algfkahgjklah ... he discarded meditation practice instantly.

His excuse is that these are others peoples/gurus illuminations, practices and therfore should discard them.
Truth, god is over there, and you practice to get there. So again JK finds it wrong..

So you get the gist.

6.18 put that all away and ask what is meditation, asking that question we start to meditate ourselves. We should start from not knowing what meditation is..it brings a great sense of humility..freedom from established known*(*or what word the K says?)
-----------
So now if i look waht JK say, so i really don't have to read all what he says like in hundreds of texts or meditate at all, if i know that all i need to understand JK is to get the sense of humility. So why not JK tell it immediately that you need have sense of humilty. It can be gotten "much easier" on other circumstances..too

important point is on 8:20 is mediation divorced from daily living?..meditation covers includes all otherwise meditation would have no meaning..

part 2 around min 2 JK again puts his plate on this time talking about mantra how it is self-imposed to arrive into certain point.
---
i guess that JK neglects conditions derived outcomes. Like how anxiety is triggered or phobias etc. You can set up conditions and then get the fruits.
Last edited by auto on Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: J.Krishnamurti discussion.

Post by auto » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:48 pm

JK doesn't do discipline, no meditation, because JK no meditation covers all daily activities.

Ok, but when you get into body routes, then you need do meditation, there is a reason for it because there is a need and that need needs to be satisfied like you go to pee.

His philosophy doesn't take into account that you could look out of the eyes through eyes that the eyes are like window and you are in the house and see objects through window. So you can turn gaze inward and then see the air space between window and the watcher, there are so many things to do and cultivate thats its sickening.

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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?

Post by Yan kong » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:39 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:12 am
binocular wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:21 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:31 am
Why speculate about this kind of stuff when it is meaningless for anyone who is interested in truth? Freedom is not about adapting to any kind of behavior or thought program. Comparing Fransciscan monks to Thai Forest meditators is laughable. Just sayin'.

Questioner: ...but you say nothing about any intimation of the transcendental, the divine, or whatever you like to call it.

J.Krishnamurti: The intimation of that can be found only in freedom, and any
statement about it is the denial of freedom; any statement about it becomes a
verbal communication without meaning. It is there, but it cannot be found or
invited, least of all imprisoned in any system, or ambushed by any clever tricks of
the mind. It is not in the churches or the temples or the mosques. There is no
path to it, no guru, no system that can reveal its beauty; its ecstasy comes only
when there is love. This is enlightenment.


Does this get any traction in anyone here?
It doesn't get any traction in my mind, because it's just another religion, even while it purports not to be one.
How do you arrive at J. Krishnamurti teaching a religion? Is there a JK temple? Path? Doctrine? Lineage? Of course, people will parrot what he says, but where are his precepts? So, in your view, anything that is a religion gets no traction? Yet, you are here on a Buddhist site. Please explain this great mystery.
It's a flawed religion at best since there is no lineage. There's a doctrine, I've read just three threads on this forum where people go on and on and on about it.

Also, the quote about violence is rather silly. It's a bit ridiculous to ignore the complex conditions that make people different.

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