What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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No_Mind
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:15 am

santa100 wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:14 pm
No_Mind wrote:.. how is God as we view Him/It different from Kamma
Maybe there's really no difference after all. If anyone have read the Old Testament and even bits and pieces of the New Testament, for all practical purposes, one'd have no choice but to substitute the word God with the word Kamma in order to make sense out of those truely horrific and ghastly stories.
I was reading the OT again when I posted this question :smile:

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:18 am

binocular wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:13 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:59 pm
My question is not whether God is one or three or many .. how is God as we view Him/It different from Kamma

They are both manipulating marionettes from behind the curtain is it not ..
Since neither of them is a being, they don't exist, and cannot manipulate anyone. Ha ha.
That is a tricky conclusion you have reached. Being is something brought into existence. God and Kamma were not brought into existence.

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:23 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:49 am
There is a very big difference. god's plan is an external entity deciding your progress while kamma is the entity which results from you making your choices. god's plan places responsibility on god while kamma places the responsibility on YOU.
chownah
God's plan does not place responsibility on Him but us.

If we sin God punishes us, if we do good He rewards us .. is what the three Abrahamic religions preach.

In Hinduism .. Karma is a part of God/Divine or at least not separate from Him/It. Hence it too is in the same basket as three Abrahamic religions and preaches that good deeds are rewarded and bad deeds are punished.

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:48 am

Justsit wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:31 pm
Kamma is simply cause and effect. Negative action - negative result (for the person acting). Positive action - positive result.
This happens regardless of whether a person "believes" in karma. No plan, no judgment, no punishment.

"God's" plan involves God acting in judgment of an individual's actions. The fact that it is "God's" plan implies that there is "active" judgment, with the resulting effect (positive or negative) based solely on God's interpretation and intervention.

IMO, trying to discuss "God" is next to impossible, because as soon as one hears the word, a concept of some sort arises. And that is very likely not the same as the next person's concept; a bit like the blind men describing an elephant. To have a rational discussion, the participants should agree on the definition of terms at the outset - a futile endeavor, in this case.
God's judgement (for lack of a better word) also happens regardless of a person's disbelief in God.

How do you arrive at the conclusion that God's judgement is active judgement and Karma's judgement is (by implication) passive judgement?

Would you believe if I told you there are some who believe China went through the pain of communism due to the bad Kamma of spreading Mahayana which they consider as impure teachings (If you want the source you have to wait a day or two .. it is honestly impossible to keep track of thousands of sources. Sometimes YT will show a video with a certain search keyword but after few months not bring it up with same keyword). That sounds right out of Old Testament.

We are not discussing God but that aspect of Him/It which punishes and rewards.

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by chownah » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:55 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:23 am
chownah wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:49 am
There is a very big difference. god's plan is an external entity deciding your progress while kamma is the entity which results from you making your choices. god's plan places responsibility on god while kamma places the responsibility on YOU.
chownah
God's plan does not place responsibility on Him but us.

If we sin God punishes us, if we do good He rewards us .. is what the three Abrahamic religions preach.

In Hinduism .. Karma is a part of God/Divine or at least not separate from Him/It. Hence it too is in the same basket as three Abrahamic religions and preaches that good deeds are rewarded and bad deeds are punished.

:namaste:
god reveals her plan and we are punished to make us follow it...god is the active agent.
kamma is what happens when we act a certain way....we are the active agent.
chownah

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:58 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:55 am
god reveals her plan and we are punished to make us follow it...god is the active agent.
kamma is what happens when we act a certain way....we are the active agent.
chownah
It is difficult to write in subject line "What is the difference between God's reward/retribution and Kamma

When reading my posts please read the OP and take that as the basis for further discussion.

My subject lines are about 70% accurate. The OP is where I present the case.

For some reason I cannot edit anything on page 1 or I would have added an extra line
What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma? Read as What is the difference between God's reward/retribution and Kamma?

They both are invisible, they govern our lives, they are omnipresent, they reward you for good deeds, punish you for bad deeds.
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binocular
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by binocular » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:29 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:04 pm
One does not exist, and the other does.
A bannable statement.

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by binocular » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:31 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:18 am
binocular wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:13 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:59 pm
My question is not whether God is one or three or many .. how is God as we view Him/It different from Kamma

They are both manipulating marionettes from behind the curtain is it not ..
Since neither of them is a being, they don't exist, and cannot manipulate anyone. Ha ha.
That is a tricky conclusion you have reached. Being is something brought into existence. God and Kamma were not brought into existence.
I only connected the premises you already stated, and reached a conclusion based on them.

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by Justsit » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:46 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:23 am
chownah wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:49 am
There is a very big difference. god's plan is an external entity deciding your progress while kamma is the entity which results from you making your choices. god's plan places responsibility on god while kamma places the responsibility on YOU.
chownah
God's plan does not place responsibility on Him but us.

If we sin God punishes us, if we do good He rewards us .. is what the three Abrahamic religions preach.

In Hinduism .. Karma is a part of God/Divine or at least not separate from Him/It. Hence it too is in the same basket as three Abrahamic religions and preaches that good deeds are rewarded and bad deeds are punished.

:namaste:
So now what I'm hearing you say is that you are questioning how the reward/punishment system of the Abrahamic God's plan differs from the HIndu gods' karmic retribution system.

Then my answer must be that I have no clue, since I do not believe in the Abrahamic God nor do I believe that karma is gods' punishment. Therefore I will bow out. :bow:

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:47 pm

Justsit wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:46 pm
So now what I'm hearing you say is that you are questioning how the reward/punishment system of the Abrahamic God's plan differs from the HIndu gods' karmic retribution system.

Then my answer must be that I have no clue, since I do not believe in the Abrahamic God nor do I believe that karma is gods' punishment. Therefore I will bow out. :bow:
No. I am asking difference between God's reward/punishment vis a vis Buddhist Kamma

There is nothing about Hinduism in my question

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by binocular » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:08 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:47 pm
No. I am asking difference between God's reward/punishment vis a vis Buddhist Kamma
Define "God".

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:41 am

binocular wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:08 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:47 pm
No. I am asking difference between God's reward/punishment vis a vis Buddhist Kamma
Define "God".
The usual one found in Judaism,, Christianity, Islam and plebeian version of Hinduism

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by binocular » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:48 pm

binocular wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:08 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:47 pm
No. I am asking difference between God's reward/punishment vis a vis Buddhist Kamma
Define "God".
To begin with: On the grounds of what does one conceive of kamma as a matter of rewards and punishments?

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:55 pm

binocular wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:48 pm
binocular wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:08 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:47 pm
No. I am asking difference between God's reward/punishment vis a vis Buddhist Kamma
Define "God".
To begin with: On the grounds of what does one conceive of kamma as a matter of rewards and punishments?
That is how it is taught. You do good deeds and you have good kamma ..

Please do not go all cryptic. if you have something to say .. say it .. a forum is not the proper forum (pun unintended) for socratic method

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by binocular » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:59 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:55 pm
binocular wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:48 pm
To begin with: On the grounds of what does one conceive of kamma as a matter of rewards and punishments?
That is how it is taught.
I wasn't taught that way.

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