What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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No_Mind
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What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm

What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

They both are invisible, they govern our lives, they are omnipresent, they reward you for good deeds, punish you for bad deeds.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm
What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

They both are invisible, they govern our lives, they are omnipresent, they reward you for good deeds, punish you for bad deeds.

:namaste:
One is the will of a being, one isn't?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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No_Mind
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:27 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm
What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

They both are invisible, they govern our lives, they are omnipresent, they reward you for good deeds, punish you for bad deeds.

:namaste:
One is the will of a being. One isn't?
Which one is a being?

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:28 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:27 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm
What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

They both are invisible, they govern our lives, they are omnipresent, they reward you for good deeds, punish you for bad deeds.

:namaste:
One is the will of a being. One isn't?
Which one is a being?

:namaste:
God, in traditional monotheistic religions. Maybe in Hinduism "he" isn't a "being" though.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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No_Mind
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:30 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:28 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:27 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm
One is the will of a being. One isn't?
Which one is a being?

:namaste:
God, in traditional monotheistic religions. Maybe in Hinduism "he" isn't a "being" though.
Where in Christianity or Judaism does it say He is a being? As far as I know .. I maybe wrong .. He is not a being (something brought into existence) in Judaism or Christianity.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:34 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:30 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:28 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:27 pm


Which one is a being?

:namaste:
God, in traditional monotheistic religions. Maybe in Hinduism "he" isn't a "being" though.
Where in Christianity or Judaism does it say He is a being?

:namaste:
What is the technical definition of "a being", for you, in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:35 pm

I'll cut to the chase: technically, in Christianity at least, God is a being. Because he is alive with a body in Heaven currently.

According to that religion at least.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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No_Mind
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:35 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:34 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:30 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:28 pm
God, in traditional monotheistic religions. Maybe in Hinduism "he" isn't a "being" though.
Where in Christianity or Judaism does it say He is a being?

:namaste:
What is the technical definition of "a being", for you, in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam?
I can speak for myself

Being is something brought into existence
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:35 pm
I'll cut to the chase: technically, in Christianity at least, God is a being. Because he is alive with a body in Heaven currently.
That is not a body made of flesh

:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Coëmgenu
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:36 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:35 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:34 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:30 pm


Where in Christianity or Judaism does it say He is a being?

:namaste:
What is the technical definition of "a being", for you, in Judaism, Christianity, or Islam?
I can speak for myself

Being is something brought into existence

:namaste:
Then, no. God isn't a being by those definitions, if we believe in him.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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No_Mind
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:37 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:36 pm
Then, no. God isn't a being by those definitions, if we believe in him.
Right. Then what is difference between Him/It and Kamma

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:39 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:37 pm
Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:36 pm
Then, no. God isn't a being by those definitions, if we believe in him.
Right. Then what is difference between Him/It and Kamma

:namaste:
Personality IMO.

However, I don't think your definition of "being" necessarily applies in Christianity.

For instance, God is "three persons". How does that relate to his being or non-being?
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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No_Mind
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by No_Mind » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:59 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:39 pm
Personality IMO.

However, I don't think your definition of "being" necessarily applies in Christianity.

For instance, God is "three persons". How does that relate to his being or non-being?
My question is not whether God is one or three or many .. how is God as we view Him/It different from Kamma

They are both manipulating marionettes from behind the curtain is it not ..

Going to sleep .. getting late here .. maybe some others will chip in

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

santa100
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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by santa100 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:14 pm

No_Mind wrote:.. how is God as we view Him/It different from Kamma
Maybe there's really no difference after all. If anyone have read the Old Testament and even bits and pieces of the New Testament, for all practical purposes, one'd have no choice but to substitute the word God with the word Kamma in order to make sense out of those truely horrific and ghastly stories.

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by binocular » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:13 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:59 pm
My question is not whether God is one or three or many .. how is God as we view Him/It different from Kamma

They are both manipulating marionettes from behind the curtain is it not ..
Since neither of them is a being, they don't exist, and cannot manipulate anyone. Ha ha.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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Re: What is the difference between God's plan and Kamma?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:17 pm

difference is that kamma is true and possible and the other is untrue and impossible.

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