Facing fact, what is

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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alfa
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:43 pm
Location: India

Facing fact, what is

Post by alfa » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:00 am

There are many schools of thought (like J krishnamurti's) that says: face fact, face what is.

But what is what is?

Let's say there is a certain object causing fear.

Is the object 'what is' or is fear 'what is'?

Should we ignore the object and face the fact of subjective experience alone?

Is that what it means?

Saengnapha
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Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Facing fact, what is

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:21 am

alfa wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:00 am
There are many schools of thought (like J krishnamurti's) that says: face fact, face what is.

But what is what is?

Let's say there is a certain object causing fear.

Is the object 'what is' or is fear 'what is'?

Should we ignore the object and face the fact of subjective experience alone?

Is that what it means?
I would say the only thing you need to concern yourself with is 'knowing what you are doing' in any given moment. You don't need to lose yourself in the content of your subjectivity or try to control it in some way. Awareness is primary. Awareness has no preference, it is simply present, mindful of whatever body and mind are doing. There is no journey and nothing to achieve. If you can somehow get a sense of this, you will save yourself a lot of stress and grief.

SarathW
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Re: Facing fact, what is

Post by SarathW » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:39 am

To me the facing facts means knowing the Four Noble Truths.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Dinsdale
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Re: Facing fact, what is

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:02 pm

alfa wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:00 am
Should we ignore the object and face the fact of subjective experience alone?
I would say just notice both of these. How they arise and cease in dependence upon conditions, the sense of perpetual change. It's all subjective really.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

auto
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Facing fact, what is

Post by auto » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:56 pm

alfa wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:00 am
There are many schools of thought (like J krishnamurti's) that says: face fact, face what is.

But what is what is?

Let's say there is a certain object causing fear.

Is the object 'what is' or is fear 'what is'?

Should we ignore the object and face the fact of subjective experience alone?

Is that what it means?
If you look at an object and get a sensation in body, that means you have experienced it before. Like fear of getting stung by a bee what flies near you, you have experienced getting sting before.
One person rised his hand and i got a reaction that he will hit me. He saw my reaction and could relate, i can assume he has been also beaten up before then.
You also can have sensation in body from meaning, like you read a book you get a meaning and less rarely a sensation, this sensation feel real and satisfies craving and you won't feel desire to do it in rl

So if someone tells you to stay in the present moment, or face the fact, yep you need to know the meaning to have a satisfying response and can relate. But firstly you need to end your current activity in order to hear relateably what the person tells you, you have to get sensation from belly, but to that happen you need get over the facepalm event, basically you need snap out of your current activty, you need help for it, and thats mainly is reason for mediation that the snap will happen and scare you out of yuor bubble. You won't wake up without setting up a condition to do so.

For now if i hear someone tells me to stay in present moment or face your reality, hmm it means nothing to me, i am unable to induce a sensation. Ok i can cultivate awareness, or watch out of the window in awe wow trees. I'm on different point and what clicks in me is different currently, and for that i need search what it is unless you know where i am stuck then you can try save me.

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