What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
What mental state is this?
What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
Kodhūpāyāsaṃ (MN 23) and bhayabherava (MN 4)
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
well if you mean as in La noche oscura del alma from St Jean
maybe "bhanga nupassana" and the next steps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visuddhim ... rification
maybe "bhanga nupassana" and the next steps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visuddhim ... rification
Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
This is indeed strange. Few days back (no more than a week) you had asked something and I was about to describe to you dark night of the soul but then stopped.
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
It's not clear that there can even be a Buddhist equivalent to the "dark night of the soul".
See this thread:
Canonical references about dark phases on the path (dark night, depression, etc)
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
A comparison like that would be meaningful if we take for granted that God, as described in Catholicism, in fact exists.pyluyten wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:24 am well if you mean as in La noche oscura del alma from St Jean
maybe "bhanga nupassana" and the next steps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visuddhim ... rification
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
It is a specific technical term in Christian, specifically Catholic, mysticism that refers to the felt withdrawal of God’s grace from someone in a deep personal relationship with (the Christian) God, I don’t see how there could be a Buddhist equivalent. Spiritual depression or darkness, frustration, near despair, longing, great difficulty, etc. can of course be felt, but that is not what the term really refers to. The term has been misappropriated and abused by people wishing to “dress up” or dramatize their own experiences (as in songs for romantic teenagers) or simply don’t understand it. From there it has spread to others.
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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
In my 20s, I experienced a period that was sort of an existential crisis. I was raised in a atheistic home and all of a sudden began to be drawn to all things spiritual. That was when I found the dhamma (eventually anyway). In my perusal of Christian literature at the time I did read a description of the Dark Night of the Soul and have used it to describe that time in my life, although strictly speaking that is mainly because people understand what that means in the west, not because it really accurately describes it. E.g I never believed in god and never felt "his" absence. I am not sure there is anything in the canon about this specifically.
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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
Perhaps you should call it an existential crisis or sort of an existential crisis. That seems far more understandable and relatable to me, a person in the West, than the “dark night” phrase. This is meant as helpful suggestion. You are free, of course, to use whatever vocabulary you wish.dharmacorps wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:57 pm In my 20s, I experienced a period that was sort of an existential crisis. I was raised in a atheistic home and all of a sudden began to be drawn to all things spiritual. That was when I found the dhamma (eventually anyway). In my perusal of Christian literature at the time I did read a description of the Dark Night of the Soul and have used it to describe that time in my life, although strictly speaking that is mainly because people understand what that means in the west, not because it really accurately describes it. E.g I never believed in god and never felt "his" absence. I am not sure there is anything in the canon about this specifically.
Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
The term "existential crisis" has some specific culutral baggage(s).Caodemarte wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:01 pmPerhaps you should call it an existential crisis or sort of an existential crisis. That seems far more understandable and relatable to me, a person in the West, than the “dark night” phrase. This is meant as helpful suggestion. You are free, of course, to use whatever vocabulary you wish.
In my native language, for example, the calque "eksistencialna kriza" is usually taken to mean 'being unemployed and homeless, or facing unemployment and homelessness'; ie. it's not automatically understood in the philosophical sense.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
binocular wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:17 pmThe term "existential crisis" has some specific culutral baggage(s).Caodemarte wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:01 pmPerhaps you should call it an existential crisis or sort of an existential crisis. That seems far more understandable and relatable to me, a person in the West, than the “dark night” phrase. This is meant as helpful suggestion. You are free, of course, to use whatever vocabulary you wish.
In my native language, for example, the calque "eksistencialna kriza" is usually taken to mean 'being unemployed and homeless, or facing unemployment and homelessness'; ie. it's not automatically understood in the philosophical sense.
One can always specify what kind of existential crisis one has, philosophical or spiritual and etc.
Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
Sixth stage of insight knowledge:
"Just as a fish in a net, a frog in a snake’s jaws, a jungle fowl shut into a cage, a deer fallen into the clutches of a strong snare, a snake in the hands of a snake charmer, an elephant stuck fast in a great bog, a royal nága in the mouth of a supanna (garuda), the moon inside Ráhu’s mouth (eclipse), a man encircled by enemies, etc.— just as these are desirous of being delivered, of finding an escape from these things, so too this meditator’s mind is desirous of being delivered from the whole field of formations and escaping from it. Then, when he thus no longer relies on any formations and is desirous of being delivered from the whole field of formations, knowledge of desire for deliverance arises in him."---Visuddhimagga, XXI.46
'When traders board a ship, it seems, they take with them what is called a land-finding crow. When the ship gets blown off its course by gales and goes adrift with no land in sight, then they release the land-finding crow. It takes off from the mast-head, and after exploring all the quarters, if it sees land, it flies straight in the direction of it; if not, it returns and alights on the mast-head. So
too, if knowledge of equanimity (or repulsiveness) about formations sees Nibbána, the state of peace, as peaceful, it rejects the occurrence of all formations and enters only into Nibbána. If it does not see it, it occurs again and again with formations as its object."—-Vism. XXI,65
"Just as a fish in a net, a frog in a snake’s jaws, a jungle fowl shut into a cage, a deer fallen into the clutches of a strong snare, a snake in the hands of a snake charmer, an elephant stuck fast in a great bog, a royal nága in the mouth of a supanna (garuda), the moon inside Ráhu’s mouth (eclipse), a man encircled by enemies, etc.— just as these are desirous of being delivered, of finding an escape from these things, so too this meditator’s mind is desirous of being delivered from the whole field of formations and escaping from it. Then, when he thus no longer relies on any formations and is desirous of being delivered from the whole field of formations, knowledge of desire for deliverance arises in him."---Visuddhimagga, XXI.46
'When traders board a ship, it seems, they take with them what is called a land-finding crow. When the ship gets blown off its course by gales and goes adrift with no land in sight, then they release the land-finding crow. It takes off from the mast-head, and after exploring all the quarters, if it sees land, it flies straight in the direction of it; if not, it returns and alights on the mast-head. So
too, if knowledge of equanimity (or repulsiveness) about formations sees Nibbána, the state of peace, as peaceful, it rejects the occurrence of all formations and enters only into Nibbána. If it does not see it, it occurs again and again with formations as its object."—-Vism. XXI,65
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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
It has to do with insights into unsatisfactoriness. One of the ways of describing the progress of insight is taught in this short dhamma treasure by Mahasi Sayadaw:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... gress.html
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
The most interesting book I've come across on this subject is "The Cloud of Nothingness, The Negative Way in Nagarjuna and John of the Cross", by C.D. Sebastian.
From the preface:
From the preface:
The ineffableness of Nibbana and God take root when there is a 'giving up', a dispassion towards the intellect trying to grab hold of what is not 'knowable', hence, 'the via negativa.' Neither religion can be measured against the other because of the vocabulary used in both traditions. Both men were shining examples of the culmination of their wisdom. Entering either gate is the end of inherent existence and dissolution of the person (selflessness). Flip a coin to pick your favorite path.The notion of ‘nothingness’ is the leitmotif of this work. Nothingness, śūnyatā in
Nāgārjuna and (la) nada in John of the Cross, two representatives from two different
cultural, religious and philosophical traditions of the East and West – Buddhism
and Christianity – is the negative way that is discussed in this book. This study is not
aimed at looking for the fashionable search for sameness in the scheme of thought
that we find in the works of these two great past masters, but it attempts to identify
the distinctiveness of each. There is similarity as well as dissimilarity in the negative
way paradigms proposed by these two thinkers. There is a striking difference in
their goals, for Nāgārjuna is a Buddhist philosopher, speaking from a Buddhist
standpoint for whom the Buddha-vacana, the Word of the Buddha is of paramount
importance, whereas John of the Cross is a Christian mystic speaking from a Judeo-Christian
world view and belief for whom Dabar Yahweh, the Word of God, is the
ultimate source.
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Re: What is the Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhist terms?
Modus.Ponens wrote: ↑Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:26 amIt has to do with insights into unsatisfactoriness. One of the ways of describing the progress of insight is taught in this short dhamma treasure by Mahasi Sayadaw:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... gress.html
Neither has anything to do with the Christian term “Dark Night of the Soul” which refers to the felt withdrawal of a very personal God.paul wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:45 pm Sixth stage of insight knowledge:
"Just as a fish in a net, a frog in a snake’s jaws, a jungle fowl shut into a cage, a deer fallen into the clutches of a strong snare, a snake in the hands of a snake charmer, an elephant stuck fast in a great bog, a royal nága in the mouth of a supanna (garuda), the moon inside Ráhu’s mouth (eclipse), a man encircled by enemies, etc.— just as these are desirous of being delivered, of finding an escape from these things, so too this meditator’s mind is desirous of being delivered from the whole field of formations and escaping from it. Then, when he thus no longer relies on any formations and is desirous of being delivered from the whole field of formations, knowledge of desire for deliverance arises in him."---Visuddhimagga, XXI.46
'When traders board a ship, it seems, they take with them what is called a land-finding crow. When the ship gets blown off its course by gales and goes adrift with no land in sight, then they release the land-finding crow. It takes off from the mast-head, and after exploring all the quarters, if it sees land, it flies straight in the direction of it; if not, it returns and alights on the mast-head. So
too, if knowledge of equanimity (or repulsiveness) about formations sees Nibbána, the state of peace, as peaceful, it rejects the occurrence of all formations and enters only into Nibbána. If it does not see it, it occurs again and again with formations as its object."—-Vism. XXI,65