Nibbana vs Brahman
Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
there was a good discussion about this here
Born, become, arisen – made, prepared, short-lived
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in
Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
Bonded by decay and death – a nest for sickness, perishable
Produced by seeking nutriment – not fit to take delight in
Departure from this is peaceful – beyond reasoning and enduring
Unborn, unarisen – free from sorrow and stain
Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
I believe they both are the sameJames Tan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:00 pm Greetings ,
All orthodox schools of Hinduism hold the premise, "Atman exists, as self evident truth".
On the other hand ,
Buddhism, in contrast, holds the premise, "Atman does not exist (or, An-atman) as self evident".
The ultimate goal of Buddhism is Nibbana .
The ultimate goal of Hinduism is Brahman .
Buddha himself and his disciples attained Nibbana and proving that state is the Truth .
samanas brahmanas yogis rishis renunciates is the living proof of Thou Art That .
Nibbana i.e. the ending of dukkha ,
the extinction of life .
Brahman i.e. the moksa ,
the ultimate knowledge , immortality .
There is a discussion here https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/ques ... ahman-atma
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
Bhikkhu Bodhi: There is one that comes in the Majjihima Nikaya that is in the end of sutta 51 where he is speaking about the progressive development of the disciple where he goes on through the different stages of mediation and insight and at the end he becomes an arahat. A liberated one and he says he dwells, atma bhutto brahma vihara. He dwells with a self that has become Brahma. So it seems almost to be echoing the Upanishads formula of the self that has become Brahma.(Brahman)
Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
James Tan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:11 am Bhikkhu Bodhi: There is one that comes in the Majjihima Nikaya that is in the end of sutta 51 where he is speaking about the progressive development of the disciple where he goes on through the different stages of mediation and insight and at the end he becomes an arahat. A liberated one and he says he dwells, atma bhutto brahma vihara. He dwells with a self that has become Brahma. So it seems almost to be echoing the Upanishads formula of the self that has become Brahma.(Brahman)
That's pretty interesting.....and advances this discussion rather well.
Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
I believe the “Brahma viharas” are secondary to nibanna. In suttas, the Buddha speaks of monks who aim for such spheres as those who aim for a lesser objective.
And, earlier it was mentioned that infinite consciousness equates to “being one with Brahman”. I believe this is true. The Brahma viharas are infinite spheres. In my experience, the sphere of loving kindness, for example, is embodied by none other than the Personage of the Christ Himself.
And, earlier it was mentioned that infinite consciousness equates to “being one with Brahman”. I believe this is true. The Brahma viharas are infinite spheres. In my experience, the sphere of loving kindness, for example, is embodied by none other than the Personage of the Christ Himself.
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
What is the source? The Brahman at end .. did you insert it?James Tan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:11 am Bhikkhu Bodhi: There is one that comes in the Majjihima Nikaya that is in the end of sutta 51 where he is speaking about the progressive development of the disciple where he goes on through the different stages of mediation and insight and at the end he becomes an arahat. A liberated one and he says he dwells, atma bhutto brahma vihara. He dwells with a self that has become Brahma. So it seems almost to be echoing the Upanishads formula of the self that has become Brahma.(Brahman)
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
Yes , I inserted . Please see below.No_Mind wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:01 amWhat is the source? The Brahman at end .. did you insert it?James Tan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:11 am Bhikkhu Bodhi: There is one that comes in the Majjihima Nikaya that is in the end of sutta 51 where he is speaking about the progressive development of the disciple where he goes on through the different stages of mediation and insight and at the end he becomes an arahat. A liberated one and he says he dwells, atma bhutto brahma vihara. He dwells with a self that has become Brahma. So it seems almost to be echoing the Upanishads formula of the self that has become Brahma.(Brahman)
Bhikkhu Bodhi: Yes, in this particular grammatical form Brahma Bhutto, one can’t determine whether Brahma here represents Brahman or Brahma; the impersonal absolute or Brahma as the supreme deity. And then the word Brahma in the sense of holy or supreme occurs in numerous compounds in the Pali cannon. What’s called the spiritual life or the holy life is brahmacharya. Literally it’s the course or path to the holy or to the divine, the divine life. And then the Buddha himself is said to be Brahma bhutto, one who has become Brahma which is understood to mean, become the Holy, become the supreme. But there’s not an explicit statement or an explicit formulation that uses Brahma clearly in the sense of the impersonal divine absolute.
Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
I don't think that squares with the quote, because the Brahma metaphor was a simile for becoming an arahat. Whereas the 4 Brahma viharas are more like the moral virtues or attributes that Brahma has.Pondera wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:31 am I believe the “Brahma viharas” are secondary to nibanna. In suttas, the Buddha speaks of monks who aim for such spheres as those who aim for a lesser objective.
And, earlier it was mentioned that infinite consciousness equates to “being one with Brahman”. I believe this is true. The Brahma viharas are infinite spheres. In my experience, the sphere of loving kindness, for example, is embodied by none other than the Personage of the Christ Himself.
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Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
Just imagine being tied down and forced to listen to Trump's tweets on a continuous loop.
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Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
Agreed, but this doesn't sound much like Nibbana.No_Mind wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:58 am Brahman connotes the highest Universal Principle, the ultimate reality in the universe. In major schools of Hindu philosophy, it is the material, efficient, formal and final cause of all that exists. It is the pervasive, genderless, infinite, eternal truth and bliss which does not change, yet is the cause of all changes. Brahman as a metaphysical concept is the single binding unity behind diversity in all that exists in the universe.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dha ... bbana.html
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Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
Especially the way he is explaining Brahman. But, otoh, the same problems exist explaining Nibbana.Dinsdale wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:20 amAgreed, but this doesn't sound much like Nibbana.No_Mind wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:58 am Brahman connotes the highest Universal Principle, the ultimate reality in the universe. In major schools of Hindu philosophy, it is the material, efficient, formal and final cause of all that exists. It is the pervasive, genderless, infinite, eternal truth and bliss which does not change, yet is the cause of all changes. Brahman as a metaphysical concept is the single binding unity behind diversity in all that exists in the universe.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dha ... bbana.html
Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
What is the source .. the link ..James Tan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:16 amYes , I inserted . Please see below.No_Mind wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:01 amWhat is the source? The Brahman at end .. did you insert it?James Tan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:11 am Bhikkhu Bodhi: There is one that comes in the Majjihima Nikaya that is in the end of sutta 51 where he is speaking about the progressive development of the disciple where he goes on through the different stages of mediation and insight and at the end he becomes an arahat. A liberated one and he says he dwells, atma bhutto brahma vihara. He dwells with a self that has become Brahma. So it seems almost to be echoing the Upanishads formula of the self that has become Brahma.(Brahman)
Bhikkhu Bodhi: Yes, in this particular grammatical form Brahma Bhutto, one can’t determine whether Brahma here represents Brahman or Brahma; the impersonal absolute or Brahma as the supreme deity. And then the word Brahma in the sense of holy or supreme occurs in numerous compounds in the Pali cannon. What’s called the spiritual life or the holy life is brahmacharya. Literally it’s the course or path to the holy or to the divine, the divine life. And then the Buddha himself is said to be Brahma bhutto, one who has become Brahma which is understood to mean, become the Holy, become the supreme. But there’s not an explicit statement or an explicit formulation that uses Brahma clearly in the sense of the impersonal divine absolute.
e.g.
When you see things in the world like banana peels that have no great value for you, then you're free to walk in the world without being moved, without being bothered, without being hurt in any way by all of the various kinds of things that come and pass away, whether pleasant or unpleasant. This is the path that leads you to freedom. - Ajahn Chah
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/tree-forest.pdf
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
No_Mind wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:18 amWhat is the source .. the link ..James Tan wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:16 amYes , I inserted . Please see below.
Bhikkhu Bodhi: Yes, in this particular grammatical form Brahma Bhutto, one can’t determine whether Brahma here represents Brahman or Brahma; the impersonal absolute or Brahma as the supreme deity. And then the word Brahma in the sense of holy or supreme occurs in numerous compounds in the Pali cannon. What’s called the spiritual life or the holy life is brahmacharya. Literally it’s the course or path to the holy or to the divine, the divine life. And then the Buddha himself is said to be Brahma bhutto, one who has become Brahma which is understood to mean, become the Holy, become the supreme. But there’s not an explicit statement or an explicit formulation that uses Brahma clearly in the sense of the impersonal divine absolute.
e.g.
When you see things in the world like banana peels that have no great value for you, then you're free to walk in the world without being moved, without being bothered, without being hurt in any way by all of the various kinds of things that come and pass away, whether pleasant or unpleasant. This is the path that leads you to freedom. - Ajahn Chah
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/tree-forest.pdf
https://m.facebook.com/100017760575189/ ... d%3D&mdf=1
Last edited by sentinel on Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
I think it's correct to describe Brahman as the underlying reality or "ground of being". Describing Nibbana in those terms is problematic.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:58 amEspecially the way he is explaining Brahman. But, otoh, the same problems exist explaining Nibbana.Dinsdale wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:20 amAgreed, but this doesn't sound much like Nibbana.No_Mind wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:58 am Brahman connotes the highest Universal Principle, the ultimate reality in the universe. In major schools of Hindu philosophy, it is the material, efficient, formal and final cause of all that exists. It is the pervasive, genderless, infinite, eternal truth and bliss which does not change, yet is the cause of all changes. Brahman as a metaphysical concept is the single binding unity behind diversity in all that exists in the universe.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dha ... bbana.html
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Re: Nibbana vs Brahman
Where have you seen Brahman described as the ground of being?Dinsdale wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:39 pmI think it's correct to describe Brahman as the underlying reality or "ground of being". Describing Nibbana in those terms is problematic.Saengnapha wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:58 amEspecially the way he is explaining Brahman. But, otoh, the same problems exist explaining Nibbana.Dinsdale wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:20 am
Agreed, but this doesn't sound much like Nibbana.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dha ... bbana.html