Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
SarathW
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Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by SarathW » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:57 am

Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?
Why many countries like India and Sri Lanka are poor even though they are the beacon of the spirituality?

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by Crazy cloud » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:17 am

I've had the fortune of slipping down the social ladder ending at the bottom, and everything was just fine. Now I am back on my feat again, and nothing has changed.

But I do believe out of my own experience that a spiritual life can be much harder than a normal life. Harder but truly rewarding :)
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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binocular
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by binocular » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:26 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:57 am
Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?
Why many countries like India and Sri Lanka are poor even though they are the beacon of the spirituality?
India or Sri Lanka the beacons of spirituality??

I think most of what passes for "spirituality" is just trickery, confidence artistry. Some conmen and conwomen end up rich, many don't.

James Tan
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by James Tan » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:09 pm

SarathW wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:57 am
Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?
Why many countries like India and Sri Lanka are poor even though they are the beacon of the spirituality?

The way I see it , is mostly those who are depressed and unhappy and poor are seeking spiritual comforts ! Seeking the way out from their misery ! Unfortunately of course !

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by Crazy cloud » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:30 pm

It could be as simple as it proofs the saying: Simplicity is sanity!

:smile:
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

dharmacorps
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by dharmacorps » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:23 pm

I think its the other way around. Unhappiness and suffering leads to a spiritual search.

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by Crazy cloud » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:29 pm

That is uncertain, it can go this way or it can go that way

In these days some of our "biggest stars" in entertainment seem to suffer much more than I
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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binocular
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by binocular » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:36 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:23 pm
I think its the other way around. Unhappiness and suffering leads to a spiritual search.
Sure. But success is anything but guaranteed.

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DNS
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by DNS » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:10 pm

Actually, spiritual people and religious people tend to be happier. I won't link any studies, so no one thinks I'm cherry-picking, just google on your own and you'll see numerous studies confirm that the religious and greater religiosity tends to result in happier people.

And it extends across all socio-economic classes. It could be the sense of interconnectedness, the social effects, the sense of purpose, but it tends to result in greater happiness.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:15 pm

DNS wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:10 pm
Actually, spiritual people and religious people tend to be happier. I won't link any studies, so no one thinks I'm cherry-picking, just google on your own and you'll see numerous studies confirm that the religious and greater religiosity tends to result in happier people.

And it extends across all socio-economic classes. It could be the sense of interconnectedness, the social effects, the sense of purpose, but it tends to result in greater happiness.
I've seen similar research,
Over 85% of people or so had some sort of spirituality when tested across countries and they included isolated communities in rural areas, was quite good research. I dont remember the method they used but it was clear that Nihilist views were a minority and they were not doing very well demographically.
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Ven. Kutukurunde Nanananda's (Developing Metta)
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Dhammatalks categorized by topic @ video.sirimangalo.org/
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Parallel Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/

Disciple
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by Disciple » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:38 pm

Southern evangelical christians are some of the happiest people I've ever met.

SarathW
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by SarathW » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:29 pm

Southern evangelical christians are some of the happiest people I've ever met.
When we meet people in a social occasion, temple or a pub it seems they all are happy.
In the OP I am talking about people in general without their mask on.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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rightviewftw
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:40 am

It would be interesting to pose this question in way that below Wealth-Averaged is the standard for what constitutes poor i think :thinking:
That could be calculated to aproximate estimation easily. My guess is Nihilists overrepresented somehow in the mid-high range.
My guess would be that Nihilism is overrepresented in depression too.

Also this;
SarathW wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:57 am
Why many countries like India and Sri Lanka are poor even though they are the beacon of the spirituality?
Rich or poor is measured in contentment better
Treasury of Truth (Dhammapada) Chapter 15, Happiness - BuddhaNet
www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/d_happy.htm

Verse 204. Four Supreme Acquisitions.
  1. Health's the greatest gain,
  • contentment, best of wealth,
  • trusting's best of kin,
  • Nibbana bliss supreme.
:anjali:
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Ven. Kutukurunde Nanananda's (Developing Metta)
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Dhammatalks categorized by topic @ video.sirimangalo.org/
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Parallel Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/

SarathW
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by SarathW » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:57 am

not numbers on a screen or metal in hand.
:rofl:
I wish we can practice this.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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rightviewftw
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:59 am

SarathW wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:57 am
Wealth measured in contentment, not numbers on a screen or metal in hand.
:rofl:
I wish we can practice this.
:heart: me too
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Ven. Kutukurunde Nanananda's (Developing Metta)
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Dhammatalks categorized by topic @ video.sirimangalo.org/
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Parallel Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/

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binocular
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by binocular » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:17 am

DNS wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:10 pm
Actually, spiritual people and religious people tend to be happier. I won't link any studies, so no one thinks I'm cherry-picking, just google on your own and you'll see numerous studies confirm that the religious and greater religiosity tends to result in happier people.
I'm sure it does, under the condition that one is either born into a religion; or, if converting for the first time as an adult, that one has had little or no doubts about the religion and fits in among other members in the socio-economic sense.
And it extends across all socio-economic classes. It could be the sense of interconnectedness, the social effects, the sense of purpose, but it tends to result in greater happiness.
And there are many people for whom it doesn't work like that. From anecdotal observations and informal surveys, I have heard that people who convert for the first time as adults, tend to leave their new religion within the first five years (there aren't many studies about this particular population). It appears they were not all that happy, feeling purposeful and connected after all.

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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by chownah » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:05 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:23 pm
I think its the other way around. Unhappiness and suffering leads to a spiritual search.
:goodpost:
chownah

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zerotime
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by zerotime » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:18 pm

Image

http://www.businessinsider.com/countrie ... ers-2016-2




"The Blessed One said: "And how does one dwell in heedlessness? When a monk dwells without restraint over the faculty of the eye, the mind is stained with forms cognizable via the eye. When the mind is stained, there is no joy. There being no joy, there is no rapture. There being no rapture, there is no serenity. There being no serenity, he dwells in suffering. The mind of one who suffers does not become centered. When the mind is uncentered, phenomena (dhammas) don't become manifest. When phenomena aren't manifest, one is classed simply as one who dwells in heedlessness."
...
"When a monk dwells with restraint over the ear... nose... tongue... body...

"When a monk dwells with restraint over the faculty of the intellect, the mind is not stained with ideas cognizable via the intellect. When the mind is not stained, there is joy. There being joy, there is rapture. There being rapture, there is serenity. There being serenity, he dwells in ease. The mind of one at ease becomes centered. When the mind is centered, phenomena (dhammas) become manifest. When phenomena are manifest, one is classed simply as one who dwells in heedfulness.

"This is how one dwells in heedfulness."



https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

santa100
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by santa100 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:10 am

SarathW wrote:Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?
Guess it depends on what kind of happiness one's seeking..

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binocular
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Re: Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?

Post by binocular » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:06 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:57 am
Are spiritual people depressed and unhappy and poor?
A brief review of a book that challenges some popular notions of depression:
Manufacturing Depression by Gary Greenberg

An account of the way misery has been pathologised in the interests of drug companies is vital reading
Stephanie Merritt

Across the world, 450 million people suffer from mental health problems. In the next 20 years, according to the World Health Organisation, depression will become the single biggest health burden on society. Given these numbers, perhaps it is no surprise that experts have begun to challenge both the definition of the problem and the notion that medication is its best solution.

Oliver James, in 2007's Affluenza, argued that the depression "epidemic" was induced by a culture that obliges us to compete and consume. There was a media furore in 2008 when a major review appeared to show that Prozac worked little better than a placebo. Now US psychotherapist Gary Greenberg has stepped in with Manufacturing Depression, a thorough, often shocking history of how the pharmaceutical industry has pathologised misery in order to sell us the cure.

Greenberg includes frank and funny accounts of his own battle with depression, and deals principally with the US healthcare system. However, his argument and detailed evidence make it vital reading for anyone who has ever been squeezed through the machinery of depression treatments, or who simply has a healthy scepticism about the influence of Big Pharma.

"It could be that the depression epidemic is not so much the discovery of a long-unrecognised disease," he writes, "but a reconstitution of a broad swathe of human experience as illness." While he isn't the first to advance this argument, his account of the origins of psychiatric medicine is a revelation. The history of mental health research is one of guesswork, wild extrapolations and hit-and-miss efforts to impose a taxonomy on the aberrations of the mind. The conclusion that depression is the result of serotonin deficiency – the basis for a generation of treatments – was reached, Greenberg says, by scientists observing the effects of LSD.

Greenberg isn't afraid to stand against orthodoxy. If science claims depression is the result of neurochemical imbalance, and that this can be cured by restoring balance, then this is an optimistic view. In western society, to suggest that depression is part of our psychic landscape, and that in trying to eliminate it we risk losing something crucial to our humanity, is a heresy. But this engaging and necessary book is a rallying cry to resist the pathologising of emotion for profit. Greenberg is asking us to step back from neuroscience and take a more philosophical look at what it means to live now.

Pessimism, he suggests, may be a correct response to times of crisis, and a spur to action. "Regardless of whether or not the drugs work, to call pessimism the symptom of an illness and then turn our discontents over to the medical industry is to surrender perhaps the most important portion of our autonomy: the ability to look around and say… 'This is outrageous. Something must be done.'"

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/ ... erg-review

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