Does this mean without Samsara there is no Nibbana?There is no distinction whatsoever between saṃsāra and
nirvāṇa.
Or
Samsara and Nibbana the two sides of the same coin?
Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Or
Samsara and Nibbana the two sides of the same coin?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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cappuccino
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Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
they're opposites in every way
Last edited by cappuccino on Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
It means samsara understood is nirvana. It also means neither can be established as any of the four extremes. It doesn’t mean there is no difference between nirvana (recognition) and samsara (delusion) from the perspective of the practitioner.
Last edited by aflatun on Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."
Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53
"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.
That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."
Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16
Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53
"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.
That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."
Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16
Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
It means they are completely identical. As in, realization of saṃsāra is realization of nirvāṇa. Afaik/IMO.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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- Contact:
Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
there is a desert
there is a fertile spot in a desert where water is found
there is a fertile spot in a desert where water is found
Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Of course there is. Who said otherwise?
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."
Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53
"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.
That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."
Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16
Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53
"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.
That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."
Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16
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Saengnapha
- Posts: 1350
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Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
All descriptions cannot capture what the phrase samsara is nirvana and vice versa means. When you define this, you create only images, more thinking, more grasping. It has nothing to do with opposites. It is about suchness. What can you say about suchness? Does it exist?
Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Buddha said there is an escape from Samsara.What can you say about suchness? Does it exist
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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cappuccino
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Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Don't misrepresent the Blessed One. It's not good to misrepresent the Blessed One
Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
he list of ten bhumis are ten "lands" a bodhisattva must pass through on the way to Buddha-hood.
https://www.thoughtco.com/ten-bhumis-of-buddhism-450015
https://www.thoughtco.com/ten-bhumis-of-buddhism-450015
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: Do we find four stages of sainthood in Mahayana or Vajrayana?
Mean is the average of opposites. Opposite is 'highs' and 'lows' of the same thing(suchness).Saengnapha wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:19 amAll descriptions cannot capture what the phrase samsara is nirvana and vice versa means. When you define this, you create only images, more thinking, more grasping. It has nothing to do with opposites. It is about suchness. What can you say about suchness? Does it exist?