Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
alfa
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Location: India

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by alfa » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:38 am

Buddha may not have taught pranayama per se but isn't watching the breath somewhat similar? I find too many similarities between yoga and Buddhism with respect to practice - moral codes, self-control, meditation, etc.

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No_Mind
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Location: India

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by No_Mind » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:19 am

alfa wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:38 am
Buddha may not have taught pranayama per se but isn't watching the breath somewhat similar? I find too many similarities between yoga and Buddhism with respect to practice - moral codes, self-control, meditation, etc.
Yes that is what I said .. practicing mindfulness of the breath later became known as pranayama (and a technique/branch of meditation in its own right) as far as I can understand.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

alfa
Posts: 133
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:43 pm
Location: India

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by alfa » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:36 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:19 am
alfa wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:38 am
Buddha may not have taught pranayama per se but isn't watching the breath somewhat similar? I find too many similarities between yoga and Buddhism with respect to practice - moral codes, self-control, meditation, etc.
Yes that is what I said .. practicing mindfulness of the breath later became known as pranayama (and a technique/branch of meditation in its own right) as far as I can understand.

:namaste:
It's my firm belief that yoga existed before Buddha and that he himself must've practised pranayama during his early days as a seeker. Patanjali simply made a rigorous system later on. But I don't think Patanjali invented it - he developed what already existed.

Saengnapha
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Saengnapha » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:30 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:19 am
alfa wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:38 am
Buddha may not have taught pranayama per se but isn't watching the breath somewhat similar? I find too many similarities between yoga and Buddhism with respect to practice - moral codes, self-control, meditation, etc.
Yes that is what I said .. practicing mindfulness of the breath later became known as pranayama (and a technique/branch of meditation in its own right) as far as I can understand.

:namaste:
Consolidation is what keeps the illusion alive.

jmccoy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by jmccoy » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:53 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:30 am
jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:56 am
Even though pranayama is more or less disregarded in Buddhist practice we still have to consider that in deep meditation (such as extended anapana) breathing slows dramatically or even "stops." Don't the yogis call this "kevala kumbhaka?"
Pranayama is a type of "brute force" cultivation of the so-called breathless state while Buddhist practice will lead to or toward it more passively and gradually (and safely).

I think the Tathagata was wise in omitting pranayama since it can be problematic for people with certain health issues and he seemed to be all for making meditation / "yoga" (enlightenment) more of a mainstream thing, which I don't think it was before his day (correct me if I'm wrong).
.. neither Swami Vivekananda nor Ramana Maharishi .. the only two people I believe attained Nirvikalpa Samadhi (others may have but we do not know of them .. and many claim but are most probably nit telling truth) did not do all the twisting either.
What is your take on Adi Da Samraj?

Saengnapha
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Saengnapha » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:20 pm

jmccoy wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:53 am
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:30 am
jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:56 am
Even though pranayama is more or less disregarded in Buddhist practice we still have to consider that in deep meditation (such as extended anapana) breathing slows dramatically or even "stops." Don't the yogis call this "kevala kumbhaka?"
Pranayama is a type of "brute force" cultivation of the so-called breathless state while Buddhist practice will lead to or toward it more passively and gradually (and safely).

I think the Tathagata was wise in omitting pranayama since it can be problematic for people with certain health issues and he seemed to be all for making meditation / "yoga" (enlightenment) more of a mainstream thing, which I don't think it was before his day (correct me if I'm wrong).
.. neither Swami Vivekananda nor Ramana Maharishi .. the only two people I believe attained Nirvikalpa Samadhi (others may have but we do not know of them .. and many claim but are most probably nit telling truth) did not do all the twisting either.
What is your take on Adi Da Samraj?
He liked to change his name every couple of years. Identity problem?

jmccoy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by jmccoy » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:15 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:20 pm
jmccoy wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:53 am
No_Mind wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:30 am

.. neither Swami Vivekananda nor Ramana Maharishi .. the only two people I believe attained Nirvikalpa Samadhi (others may have but we do not know of them .. and many claim but are most probably nit telling truth) did not do all the twisting either.
What is your take on Adi Da Samraj?
He liked to change his name every couple of years. Identity problem?
Sure but when one has no identity then it is appropriate to have an identity problem.
One could say he was perhaps adjusting his identity to suit the conditions/circumstances of his disciples

Somewhere else on this site someone mentioned that Adi Da was one of the, or at least a, "great poser" and I pretty much agree with that assessment but I was curious about what our fellow Brahmo (No_Mind) might have to say or think about the "Avatara" Adi Dam Samraj especially after recognizing Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi as one of the only ones of the 20th century to have achieved Nirvikalpa :)

Adi Da went on to say he was the only 7th stage realizer and that Ramana was at most a 6th stage realizer. I think Da was full of crap on that call. But otherwise Da does have a unique clarity and precision that cannot easily be discounted in its relevance to the process and product of Enlightenment.

Saengnapha
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Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Saengnapha » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:05 am

jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:15 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:20 pm
jmccoy wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:53 am


What is your take on Adi Da Samraj?
He liked to change his name every couple of years. Identity problem?
Sure but when one has no identity then it is appropriate to have an identity problem.
One could say he was perhaps adjusting his identity to suit the conditions/circumstances of his disciples

Somewhere else on this site someone mentioned that Adi Da was one of the, or at least a, "great poser" and I pretty much agree with that assessment but I was curious about what our fellow Brahmo (No_Mind) might have to say or think about the "Avatara" Adi Dam Samraj especially after recognizing Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi as one of the only ones of the 20th century to have achieved Nirvikalpa :)

Adi Da went on to say he was the only 7th stage realizer and that Ramana was at most a 6th stage realizer. I think Da was full of crap on that call. But otherwise Da does have a unique clarity and precision that cannot easily be discounted in its relevance to the process and product of Enlightenment.
Did you ever meet him?

jmccoy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by jmccoy » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:02 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:05 am
jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:15 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:20 pm

He liked to change his name every couple of years. Identity problem?
Sure but when one has no identity then it is appropriate to have an identity problem.
One could say he was perhaps adjusting his identity to suit the conditions/circumstances of his disciples

Somewhere else on this site someone mentioned that Adi Da was one of the, or at least a, "great poser" and I pretty much agree with that assessment but I was curious about what our fellow Brahmo (No_Mind) might have to say or think about the "Avatara" Adi Dam Samraj especially after recognizing Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi as one of the only ones of the 20th century to have achieved Nirvikalpa :)

Adi Da went on to say he was the only 7th stage realizer and that Ramana was at most a 6th stage realizer. I think Da was full of crap on that call. But otherwise Da does have a unique clarity and precision that cannot easily be discounted in its relevance to the process and product of Enlightenment.
Did you ever meet him?
No

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Saengnapha » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:12 am

jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:02 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:05 am
jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:15 am

Sure but when one has no identity then it is appropriate to have an identity problem.
One could say he was perhaps adjusting his identity to suit the conditions/circumstances of his disciples

Somewhere else on this site someone mentioned that Adi Da was one of the, or at least a, "great poser" and I pretty much agree with that assessment but I was curious about what our fellow Brahmo (No_Mind) might have to say or think about the "Avatara" Adi Dam Samraj especially after recognizing Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi as one of the only ones of the 20th century to have achieved Nirvikalpa :)

Adi Da went on to say he was the only 7th stage realizer and that Ramana was at most a 6th stage realizer. I think Da was full of crap on that call. But otherwise Da does have a unique clarity and precision that cannot easily be discounted in its relevance to the process and product of Enlightenment.
Did you ever meet him?
No
Then all you have are various ideas that you've formulated through reading his books and accounts of others. You have no first hand experience of what it is like to be around him and his disciples and live the life that he is proposing. Am I correct? You could be completely mistaken about your conclusions, and the people that have talked about him could have been mistaken about their conclusions, both positive or negative. So what do you rely on to 'judge' someone like him or anyone else that you really don't know or have first hand experience with?

jmccoy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by jmccoy » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:05 pm

Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:12 am
jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:02 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:05 am

Did you ever meet him?
No
Then all you have are various ideas that you've formulated through reading his books and accounts of others. You have no first hand experience of what it is like to be around him and his disciples and live the life that he is proposing. Am I correct? You could be completely mistaken about your conclusions, and the people that have talked about him could have been mistaken about their conclusions, both positive or negative. So what do you rely on to 'judge' someone like him or anyone else that you really don't know or have first hand experience with?
I'm sorry, but who are you? I seem to recall asking a question specifically of No_Mind.

Unless you are No_Mind and are running two or more accounts, then you, sir (or ma'am) are invited to ignore my presence on this thread and forum (i.e. you are now on my foe list). I have no interest in dialoguing with you at all.

Have a nice life, or not.

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Saengnapha » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:37 am

jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:05 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:12 am
jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:02 am

No
Then all you have are various ideas that you've formulated through reading his books and accounts of others. You have no first hand experience of what it is like to be around him and his disciples and live the life that he is proposing. Am I correct? You could be completely mistaken about your conclusions, and the people that have talked about him could have been mistaken about their conclusions, both positive or negative. So what do you rely on to 'judge' someone like him or anyone else that you really don't know or have first hand experience with?
I'm sorry, but who are you? I seem to recall asking a question specifically of No_Mind.

Unless you are No_Mind and are running two or more accounts, then you, sir (or ma'am) are invited to ignore my presence on this thread and forum (i.e. you are now on my foe list). I have no interest in dialoguing with you at all.

Have a nice life, or not.
This is a discussion board. Posters are free to respond to posts. I asked you a few simple questions and you flipped out. :shrug:

manas
Posts: 2471
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by manas » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:40 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:55 am
No_Mind wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:15 am
How similar is it to Buddhist practice (compare practice to practice ..
The Buddhist path is lead by wisdom or Right View (MN 117). Without wisdom --- precepts, sense control & samadhi are difficult to achieve. As for ' asana', in Buddhism, there are four, namely, sitting, standing, walking & lying down. In general, seeking 'the divine' is not really the same as seeking the end of suffering because the suffering (& its causes) which is be ended is something clearly known.
I had some wonderful experiences while practicing Bhakti Yoga, but the Buddha's Path has helped me to investigate the mind itself, which is not the same thing.
In goodwill :anjali:

jmccoy
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 6:18 pm

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by jmccoy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:00 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:37 am
jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:05 pm
Saengnapha wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:12 am

Then all you have are various ideas that you've formulated through reading his books and accounts of others. You have no first hand experience of what it is like to be around him and his disciples and live the life that he is proposing. Am I correct? You could be completely mistaken about your conclusions, and the people that have talked about him could have been mistaken about their conclusions, both positive or negative. So what do you rely on to 'judge' someone like him or anyone else that you really don't know or have first hand experience with?
I'm sorry, but who are you? I seem to recall asking a question specifically of No_Mind.

Unless you are No_Mind and are running two or more accounts, then you, sir (or ma'am) are invited to ignore my presence on this thread and forum (i.e. you are now on my foe list). I have no interest in dialoguing with you at all.

Have a nice life, or not.
This is a discussion board. Posters are free to respond to posts. I asked you a few simple questions and you flipped out. :shrug:
lol ok.
I'll bite.

And even though you put the term 'judge' into quotes (thereby making whatever you actually meant totally unclear) I will simply assume that you were making a judgment of me and saying that I was JUDGING Adi Da.

The only judgmental statement I definitely made was that he wasn't the sole 7th stage realizer.
What do I rely on to make that judgment? Like every other homo sapien sapiens, I rely on my own discernment (viveka) of matters.

Perhaps it is a surprise to you to imagine the possibility that a firsthand experience of something is not necessary to make an accurate judgment or discernment about it. Hopefully it is not so surprising to you. Otherwise, I have some real estate in the Cayman Islands that I think you would be very interested in.

I am curious - would you agree or disagree that it is safe to discern that playing "Russian Roulette" is not a good idea without actually playing it?

I find your questioning my judgment of Adi Da to be redundant and non-constructive, particularly if you yourself have a) never had "firsthand" experience of Adi Da and b) never had "firsthand" experience of me. Now if you seriously believe that Adi Da's enlightenment is superior to Gautama Siddhartha's and altogether unparalleled by any and all realizers (as Adi Da remarked to be so on at least one occasion), then good for you - and I would ask YOU to qualify that judgment. Otherwise I only wonder what is the motivation and/or inspiration of your questioning my judgment in the first place? Were you really hoping to gain a non-"out-flipped" response to your clearly confrontational (while claimed-by-you "simple") few questions?

Why do I think Adi Da wasn't more enlightened than Gautama? (that's actually your question, dude) Generally because Adidam isn't as widely accepted by the world as Gautama's dhamma is. And for someone who claimed to be the "Promised World-Teacher" there doesn't seem to be much that is going to happen with Adidam that is actually going to de-feat Dhamma, Vaishnavism, Shaivism, and various other *isms that are well-instituted on this planet.

Otherwise I actually like Adi Da and prefer his talks/satsangs over mostly anyone else's. I also do have some general aversion regarding the various sexual controversies that surround him because I have an affinity toward the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct. Whether or not the controversies have basis is relatively irrelevant considering that the Tathagata had no such stigma associated with him (which is part of the basis of why I "judge" Adi Da as NOT being more realized than Buddha).

But hey, if you like boinking other peoples' wives/husbands and having your wife/husband boinked by others, then maybe Adidam is for you. Just because I don't have firsthand experience of the sexual controversies of Adidam doesn't mean they aren't true, and more importantly it doesn't mean that I should dismiss them skeptically until or unless I were to have experienced them firsthand as true.

Saengnapha
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Saengnapha » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:37 am

jmccoy wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:00 am
Saengnapha wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:37 am
jmccoy wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:05 pm


I'm sorry, but who are you? I seem to recall asking a question specifically of No_Mind.

Unless you are No_Mind and are running two or more accounts, then you, sir (or ma'am) are invited to ignore my presence on this thread and forum (i.e. you are now on my foe list). I have no interest in dialoguing with you at all.

Have a nice life, or not.
This is a discussion board. Posters are free to respond to posts. I asked you a few simple questions and you flipped out. :shrug:
lol ok.
I'll bite.

And even though you put the term 'judge' into quotes (thereby making whatever you actually meant totally unclear) I will simply assume that you were making a judgment of me and saying that I was JUDGING Adi Da.

The only judgmental statement I definitely made was that he wasn't the sole 7th stage realizer.
What do I rely on to make that judgment? Like every other homo sapien sapiens, I rely on my own discernment (viveka) of matters.

Perhaps it is a surprise to you to imagine the possibility that a firsthand experience of something is not necessary to make an accurate judgment or discernment about it. Hopefully it is not so surprising to you. Otherwise, I have some real estate in the Cayman Islands that I think you would be very interested in.

I am curious - would you agree or disagree that it is safe to discern that playing "Russian Roulette" is not a good idea without actually playing it?

I find your questioning my judgment of Adi Da to be redundant and non-constructive, particularly if you yourself have a) never had "firsthand" experience of Adi Da and b) never had "firsthand" experience of me. Now if you seriously believe that Adi Da's enlightenment is superior to Gautama Siddhartha's and altogether unparalleled by any and all realizers (as Adi Da remarked to be so on at least one occasion), then good for you - and I would ask YOU to qualify that judgment. Otherwise I only wonder what is the motivation and/or inspiration of your questioning my judgment in the first place? Were you really hoping to gain a non-"out-flipped" response to your clearly confrontational (while claimed-by-you "simple") few questions?

Why do I think Adi Da wasn't more enlightened than Gautama? (that's actually your question, dude) Generally because Adidam isn't as widely accepted by the world as Gautama's dhamma is. And for someone who claimed to be the "Promised World-Teacher" there doesn't seem to be much that is going to happen with Adidam that is actually going to de-feat Dhamma, Vaishnavism, Shaivism, and various other *isms that are well-instituted on this planet.

Otherwise I actually like Adi Da and prefer his talks/satsangs over mostly anyone else's. I also do have some general aversion regarding the various sexual controversies that surround him because I have an affinity toward the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct. Whether or not the controversies have basis is relatively irrelevant considering that the Tathagata had no such stigma associated with him (which is part of the basis of why I "judge" Adi Da as NOT being more realized than Buddha).

But hey, if you like boinking other peoples' wives/husbands and having your wife/husband boinked by others, then maybe Adidam is for you. Just because I don't have firsthand experience of the sexual controversies of Adidam doesn't mean they aren't true, and more importantly it doesn't mean that I should dismiss them skeptically until or unless I were to have experienced them firsthand as true.
I think you've taken my comments in completely the wrong way. I was merely asking if you had met him. You said no. So I asked you how you come to your conclusions/take on him? I happened to have known him and had first hand contact with him. I didn't make any comment on what I felt about him or denigrated what you may have felt from reading about him. I am skeptical of anyone reading about a teacher and then drawing conclusions about them because it is often based on pre-conceived ideas about what we think is an enlightened man and what he/she should look and act like.

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