Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by No_Mind » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:04 am

Idappaccayata wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:50 am
No_Mind wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:01 am
Idappaccayata wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:47 am
I think your intentions are misleading. What are you asking? Are you or the author really claiming that what you quoted is Hinduism? It's obviously recycled Buddhism. If you want to "compare the practices", why don't you start by sharing a practice that is actually Hindu?
Uh .. it is Hindu :? Yoga Sutra of Patanjali .. as Hindu as it gets :? :?

:namaste:
The Yoga Sūtras of Patañjali are 196 Indian sutras (aphorisms). The Yoga Sutras were compiled prior to 400 CE by Sage Patanjali, taking materials about yoga from older traditions.[1][2][3]

That doesn't make them original to Hinduism. Almost 1000 years after the Buddha. Saying Hinduism is too broad of a term. What tradition of Hinduism are you referring to?
Hinduism has no problem in saying that it took 4,000 years to evolve from 3,000 BCE to 1,000 CE (or even as late as 1500 CE). Unlike Buddhism the schools did not split up (Therevada, Tibetan Mahayana, Chan, Zen, Nichiren ..) .. but stayed together compared notes and moved on.

Today is a very important festival in most of India .. Maha Shiva Ratri .. no Hindu will have a problem with admitting the fact the proto-Shiva is found as Pashupati in Indus Valley seals (3,500 BCE) then as Rudra in Vedas (1,500 BCE) then as Shiva from 1,000 CE onwards .. does not matter .. end goal of worshipping Rudra or Shiva is same and that is enough ..

Patanjali is variously placed between 200 BCE and 400 CE.

I think next argument I see coming is that Patanjali was a prachanna Bauddha (stole Buddhist ideas) to which the reply would be as Saengnapha put it .. the ideas were floating around the subcontinent .. no one had a copyright .. no one has ownership .. how do you know Buddhism did not come from the same fountainhead of ideas as well .. and Hindus take Patanjali Yoga Sutra as development of Samkhya philosophy

Instead of arguing (Allah vs Yahweh type of never ending argument) is it not better to read both and take away what is constructive.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

User avatar
Polar Bear
Posts: 1169
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: Bear Republic

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Polar Bear » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:42 am

I think there are obviously a lot of similar practices and I think a serious practicing buddhist could even use yoga, patanjali, and other non-buddhist shramanic practices and texts as a supplementary resource in cultivating sila, samadhi, and overcoming desire for sensory experiences/the material world. Not that the supplementary resources are necessary, but they are at least kinda cool. And many of the practices are so similar I'm not even going to bother comparing them, it would be tedious/I'm too lazy. I do like reading about them though so thanks for the post No_Mind.

:namaste:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

SarathW
Posts: 9996
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by SarathW » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:50 am

I think next argument I see coming is that Patanjali was a prachanna Bauddha (stole Buddhist ideas) to which the reply would be as Saengnapha put it .. the ideas were floating around the subcontinent .. no one had a copyright .. no one has ownership .. how do you know Buddhism did not come from the same fountainhead of ideas as well .. and Hindus take Patanjali Yoga Sutra as development of Samkhya philosophy
What I am interested to know is whether Hindu teaching in current form is the same as Buddhism.
ie: Are the teaching of Patanjali the same as Buddhist teaching.
If not what is the main difference.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by No_Mind » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:56 am

polarbear101 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:42 am
I think there are obviously a lot of similar practices and I think a serious practicing buddhist could even use yoga, patanjali, and other non-buddhist shramanic practices and texts as a supplementary resource in cultivating sila, samadhi, and overcoming desire for sensory experiences/the material world. Not that the supplementary resources are necessary, but they are at least kinda cool. And many of the practices are so similar I'm not even going to bother comparing them, it would be tedious/I'm too lazy. I do like reading about them though so thanks for the post No_Mind.

:namaste:
"Kinda cool" .. the exact sentiment I wanted all of you to feel ..

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by No_Mind » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:59 am

SarathW wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:50 am
I think next argument I see coming is that Patanjali was a prachanna Bauddha (stole Buddhist ideas) to which the reply would be as Saengnapha put it .. the ideas were floating around the subcontinent .. no one had a copyright .. no one has ownership .. how do you know Buddhism did not come from the same fountainhead of ideas as well .. and Hindus take Patanjali Yoga Sutra as development of Samkhya philosophy
What I am interested to know is whether Hindu teaching in current form is the same as Buddhism.
ie: Are the teaching of Patanjali the same as Buddhist teaching.
If not what is the main difference.
I am not going to talk of teachings Sarath .. this thread is about practice not teachings ..

Look at it this way .. some soccer players dropped in on a rugby match .. the point is not if rugby/soccer players are stronger or fitter or better or tougher .. but "hey pal how much cardio do you guys do .. uh we put in about 8 miles a day and another 30 minutes swimming for some of us"

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

SarathW
Posts: 9996
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by SarathW » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:43 am

this thread is about practice
Ok.
In Buddhism, you practice Noble Eightfold Path which leads to eight or nine Samadhi.
From their, you strive for the attainment of four sainthoods.
Now, what about Hindu practice?
Just give me a summary.
Last edited by SarathW on Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Polar Bear
Posts: 1169
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: Bear Republic

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Polar Bear » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:43 am

Yamas and the 5 precepts:
I. Yamas (Universal Morality)

1. Ahimsa – Compassion for all living things
The word ahimsa literally mean not to injure or show cruelty to any creature or any person in any way whatsoever. Ahimsa is, however, more than just lack of violence as adapted in yoga. It means kindness, friendliness, and thoughtful consideration of other people and things. It also has to do with our duties and responsibilities too. Ahimsa implies that in every situation we should adopt a considerate attitude and do no harm.

2. Satya – Commitment to Truthfulness
Satya means "to speak the truth," yet it is not always desirable to speak the truth on all occasions, for it could harm someone unnecessarily. We have to consider what we say, how we say it, and in what way it could affect others. If speaking the truth has negative consequences for another, then it is better to say nothing. Satya should never come into conflict with our efforts to behave with ahimsa. This precept is based on the understanding that honest communication and action form the bedrock of any healthy relationship, community, or government, and that deliberate deception, exaggerations, and mistruths harm others. ii

3. Asteya - Non-stealing
Steya means "to steal"; asteya is the opposite-to take nothing that does not belong to us. This also means that if we are in a situation where someone entrusts something to us or confides in us, we do not take advantage of him or her. Non-stealing includes not only taking what belongs to another without permission, but also using something for a different purpose to that intended, or beyond the time permitted by its owner.iii The practice of asteya implies not taking anything that has not been freely given. This includes fostering a consciousness of how we ask for others’ time for inconsiderate behavior demanding another’s attention when not freely given is, in effect, stealing.

4. Brahmacharya - Sense control
Brahmacharya is used mostly in the sense of abstinence, particularly in relationship to sexual activity. Brahmacharya suggests that we should form relationships that foster our understanding of the highest truths. Brahmacharya does not necessarily imply celibacy. Rather, it means responsible behavior with respect to our goal of moving toward the truth. Practicing brahmacharya means that we use our sexual energy to regenerate our connection to our spiritual self. It also means that we don’t use this energy in any way that might harm others.iv

5. Aparigraha - Neutralizing the desire to acquire and hoard wealth
Aparigraha means to take only what is necessary, and not to take advantage of a situation or act greedy. We should only take what we have earned; if we take more, we are exploiting someone else. The yogi feels that the collection or hoarding of things implies a lack of faith in God and in himself to provide for his future.v Aparigraha also implies letting go of our attachments to things and an understanding that impermanence and change are the only constants.
"Now, there are these five gifts, five great gifts — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. Which five?

"There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones, abandoning the taking of life, abstains from taking life. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the first gift, the first great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. And this is the fourth reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning taking what is not given (stealing), the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking what is not given. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the second gift, the second great gift... and this is the fifth reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning illicit sex, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from illicit sex. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the third gift, the third great gift... and this is the sixth reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning lying, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from lying. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fourth gift, the fourth great gift... and this is the seventh reward of merit...

"Furthermore, abandoning the use of intoxicants, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking intoxicants. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fifth gift, the fifth great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. And this is the eighth reward of merit, reward of skillfulness, nourishment of happiness, celestial, resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, leading to what is desirable, pleasurable, & appealing; to welfare & to happiness. - Abhisanda Sutta
Aparigraha is more of a monastic thing in buddhism, giving up all one's possessions from lay life.


Sauca
1. Sauca - Purity
The first niyama is sauca, meaning purity and cleanliness. Sauca has both an inner and an outer aspect. Outer cleanliness simply means keeping ourselves clean. Inner cleanliness has as much to do with the healthy, free functioning of our bodily organs as with the clarity of our mind. Practicing asanas or pranayama are essential means for attending to this inner sauca. Asanas tones the entire body and removes toxins while pranayama cleanses our lungs, oxygenates our blood and purifies our nerves. "But more important than the physical cleansing of the body is the cleansing of the mind of its disturbing emotions like hatred, passion, anger, lust, greed, delusion and pride." v
(2) “Again, a bhikkhu is seldom ill or afflicted, possessing an even digestion that is neither too cool nor too hot but moderate and suitable for striving. This is the second favorable occasion for striving. - https://suttacentral.net/en/an5.54
Contentment
2. Santosa - Contentment
Another niyama is santosa, modesty and the feeling of being content with what we have. To be at peace within and content with one's lifestyle finding contentment even while experiencing life’s difficulties for life becomes a process of growth through all kinds of circumstances. We should accept that there is a purpose for everything - yoga calls it karma – and we cultivate contentment 'to accept what happens'. It means being happy with what we have rather than being unhappy about what we don't have.
“Therefore, bhikkhus, you should train yourselves thus: ‘We will be content with any kind of robe, and we will speak in praise of contentment with any kind of robe, and we will not engage in a wrong search, in what is improper, for the sake of a robe. If we do not get a robe we will not be agitated, and if we get one we will use it without being tied to it, uninfatuated with it, not blindly absorbed in it, seeing the danger in it, understanding the escape.

“‘We will be content with any kind of almsfood … with any kind of lodging … with any kind of medicinal requisites … and if we get them we will use them without being tied to them, uninfatuated with them, not blindly absorbed in them, seeing the danger in them, understanding the escape.’ Thus should you train yourselves.

“Bhikkhus, I will exhort you by the example of Kassapa or one who is similar to Kassapa. Being exhorted, you should practise accordingly.” - https://suttacentral.net/en/sn16.1

“What taints, bhikkhus, should be abandoned by enduring? Here a bhikkhu, reflecting wisely, bears cold and heat, hunger and thirst, and contact with gadflies, mosquitoes, wind, the sun, and creeping things; he endures ill-spoken, unwelcome words and arisen bodily feelings that are painful, racking, sharp, piercing, disagreeable, distressing, and menacing to life. While taints, vexation, and fever might arise in one who does not endure such things, there are no taints, vexation, or fever in one who endures them. These are called the taints that should be abandoned by enduring.

- https://suttacentral.net/en/mn2
Tapas
3. Tapas – Disciplined use of our energy
Tapas refers to the activity of keeping the body fit or to confront and handle the inner urges without outer show. Literally it means to heat the body and, by so doing, to cleanse it. Behind the notion of tapas lies the idea we can direct our energy to enthusiastically engage life and achieve our ultimate goal of creating union with the Divine. Tapas helps us burn up all the desires that stand in our way of this goal. Another form of tapas is paying attention to what we eat. Attention to body posture, attention to eating habits, attention to breathing patterns - these are all tapas.
Ātāpin
Ātāpin (adj.) [fr. ātāpa, cp. BSk. ātāpin Av. Ś i.233; ii. 194 = Divy 37; 618] ardént, zealous, strenuous, active D iii.58, 76 sq., 141 (+ sampajāna), 221, 276; M i.22, 56, 116, 207, 349; ii.11; iii.89, 128, 156; S 113, 117 sq., 140, 165; ii.21, 136 sq.; iii.73 sq.; iv.37, 48, 54, 218; v.165, 187, 213; A ii.13 sq.; iii 38, 100 sq.; iv. 29, 177 sq., 266 sq., 300, 457 sq.; v.343 sq.; Sn 926; Nd1 378; It 41, 42; Vbh 193 sq.; Miln 34, 366; Vism 3 (= viriyavā); DhA i.120; SnA 157, 503. -- Freq. in the formula of Arahantship "eko vūpakaṭṭho appamatto ātāpī pahitatto": see arahant II. B. See also satipaṭṭhāna. <-> Opp. anātāpin S ii.195 sq.; A ii.13; It 27 (+ anottappin).

- Ātāpī is translated by Thanissaro as ardent, preserving the fire connection, it occurs in connection with satipatthana practice.

Also a good example of tapas in buddhism:

“Monks, I have known two qualities through experience: discontent with regard to skillful qualities and unrelenting exertion. Relentlessly I exerted myself, [thinking,] ‘Gladly would I let the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, but if I have not attained what can be reached through human firmness, human persistence, human striving, there will be no relaxing my persistence.’ From this heedfulness of mine was attained Awakening. From this heedfulness of mine was attained the unexcelled freedom from bondage.

“You, too, monks, should relentlessly exert yourselves, [thinking,] ‘Gladly would we let the flesh & blood in our bodies dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, but if we have not attained what can be reached through human firmness, human persistence, human striving, there will be no relaxing our persistence.’ You, too, in no long time will reach & remain in the supreme goal of the holy life for which clansmen rightly go forth from home into homelessness, knowing & realizing it for yourselves in the here & now.

“Thus you should train yourselves: ‘We will relentlessly exert ourselves, [thinking,] “Gladly would we let the flesh & blood in our bodies dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, but if we have not attained what can be reached through human firmness, human persistence, human striving, there will be no relaxing our persistence."’ That’s how you should train yourselves.” - https://suttacentral.net/en/an2.5
Self-study
4. Svadhyaya – Self study
The fourth niyama is svadhyaya. Sva means "self' adhyaya means "inquiry" or "examination". Any activity that cultivates self-reflective consciousness can be considered svadhyaya. It means to intentionally find self-awareness in all our activities and efforts, even to the point of welcoming and accepting our limitations. It teaches us to be centered and non-reactive to the dualities, to burn out unwanted and self-destructive tendencies.
"Rahula, all those brahmans & contemplatives in the course of the past who purified their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions, did it through repeated reflection on their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions in just this way.

"All those brahmans & contemplatives in the course of the future who will purify their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions, will do it through repeated reflection on their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions in just this way.

"All those brahmans & contemplatives at present who purify their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions, do it through repeated reflection on their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions in just this way.

"Thus, Rahula, you should train yourself: 'I will purify my bodily actions through repeated reflection. I will purify my verbal actions through repeated reflection. I will purify my mental actions through repeated reflection.' That's how you should train yourself."

- https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Celebration of the Spiritual
5. Isvarapranidhana - Celebration of the Spiritual
Isvarapranidhana means "to lay all your actions at the feet of God." It is the contemplation on God (Isvara) in order to become attuned to god and god's will. It is the recognition that the spiritual suffuses everything and through our attention and care we can attune ourselves with our role as part of the Creator. The practice requires that we set aside some time each day to recognize that there is some omnipresent force larger than ourselves that is guiding and directing the course of our lives. vii
[1] "There is the case where you recollect the Tathagata: 'Indeed, the Blessed One is pure and rightly self-awakened, consummate in knowledge & conduct, well-gone, an expert with regard to the world, unexcelled as a trainer for those people fit to be tamed, the Teacher of divine & human beings, awakened, blessed.' At any time when a disciple of the noble ones is recollecting the Tathagata, his mind is not overcome with passion, not overcome with aversion, not overcome with delusion. His mind heads straight, based on the Tathagata. And when the mind is headed straight, the disciple of the noble ones gains a sense of the goal, gains a sense of the Dhamma, gains joy connected with the Dhamma. In one who is joyful, rapture arises. In one who is rapturous, the body grows calm. One whose body is calmed senses pleasure. In one sensing pleasure, the mind becomes concentrated.

"Mahanama, you should develop this recollection of the Buddha while you are walking, while you are standing, while you are sitting, while you are lying down, while you are busy at work, while you are resting in your home crowded with children.

- https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
No asanas or breath control in early buddhist practice as far as I can tell from the suttas. Stretching is definitely helpful though and certain breathing techniques as well, although not all.

Control of the Senses
V. Pratyahara (Control of the Senses)

Pratyahara means drawing back or retreat. The word ahara means "nourishment"; pratyahara translates as "to withdraw oneself from that which nourishes the senses." In yoga, the term pratyahara implies withdrawal of the senses from attachment to external objects. It can then be seen as the practice of non-attachment to sensorial distractions as we constantly return to the path of self realization and achievement of internal peace. It means our senses stop living off the things that stimulate; the senses no longer depend on these stimulants and are not fed by them any more.

In pratyahara we sever this link between mind and senses, and the senses withdraw. When the senses are no longer tied to external sources, the result is restraint or pratyahara. Now that the vital forces are flowing back to the Source within, one can concentrate without being distracted by externals or the temptation to cognize externals.

Pratyahara occurs almost automatically when we meditate because we are so absorbed in the object of meditation. Precisely because the mind is so focused, the senses follow it; it is not happening the other way around.

No longer functioning in their usual manner, the senses become extraordinarily sharp. Under normal circumstances the senses become our masters rather than being our servants. The senses entice us to develop cravings for all sorts of things. In pratyahara the opposite occurs: when we have to eat we eat, but not because we have a craving for food. In pratyahara we try to put the senses in their proper place, but not cut them out of our actions entirely.

Much of our emotional imbalance are our own creation. A person who is influenced by outside events and sensations can never achieve the inner peace and tranquility. This is because he or she will waste much mental and physical energy in trying to suppress unwanted sensations and to heighten other sensations. This will eventually result in a physical or mental imbalance, and will, in most instances, result in illness.

Patanjali says that the above process is at the root of human unhappiness and uneasiness. When people seek out yoga, hoping to find that inner peace which is so evasive, they find that it was theirs all along. In a sense, yoga is nothing more than a process which enables us to stop and look at the processes of our own minds; only in this way can we understand the nature of happiness and unhappiness, and thus transcend them both.xii
"And how does a monk guard the doors to his sense faculties? There is the case where a monk, on seeing a form with the eye, does not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. He practices with restraint. He guards the faculty of the eye. He achieves restraint with regard to the faculty of the eye.

"On hearing a sound with the ear...

"On smelling an aroma with the nose...

"On tasting a flavor with the tongue...

"On feeling a tactile sensation with the body...

"On cognizing an idea with the intellect, he does not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the intellect — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. He practices with restraint. He guards the faculty of the intellect. He achieves restraint with regard to the faculty of the intellect. This is how a monk guards the doors to his sense faculties.

"And how does a monk know moderation in eating? There is the case where a monk, considering it appropriately, takes his food not playfully, nor for intoxication, nor for putting on bulk, nor for beautification, but simply for the survival & continuance of this body, for ending its afflictions, for the support of the holy life, thinking, 'I will destroy old feelings [of hunger] & not create new feelings [from overeating]. Thus I will maintain myself, be blameless, & live in comfort.' This is how a monk knows moderation in eating.

- https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Maybe I'll get to the meditation stuff later...

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by No_Mind » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:54 am

polarbear101 wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:43 am
Yamas and the 5 precepts:
/../
:anjali:
Amazing Polar Bear .. all I want to add .. let us assume it is all stolen from Buddhism .. but that means another 1 billion people follow Buddha's teachings but by a different name .. I think that would have made Buddha glad

As The Bard put it "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

pegembara
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by pegembara » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:29 am

VI. Dharana (Concentration and cultivating inner perceptual awareness)

Dharana means "immovable concentration of the mind". The essential idea is to hold the concentration or focus of attention in one direction. "When the body has been tempered by asanas, when the mind has been refined by the fire of pranayama and when the senses have been brought under control by pratyahara, the sadhaka (seeker) reaches the sixth stage, dharana. Here he is concentrated wholly on a single point or on a task in which he is completely engrossed. The mind has to be stilled in order to achieve this state of complete absorption."xiii

In dharana we create the conditions for the mind to focus its attention in one direction instead of going out in many different directions. Deep contemplation and reflection can create the right conditions, and the focus on this one point that we have chosen becomes more intense. We encourage one particular activity of the mind and, the more intense it becomes, the more the other activities of the mind fall away.

The objective in dharana is to steady the mind by focusing its attention upon some stable entity. The particular object selected has nothing to do with the general purpose, which is to stop the mind from wandering -through memories, dreams, or reflective thought-by deliberately holding it single-mindedly upon some apparently static object. B.K.S. Iyengar states that the objective is to achieve the mental state where the mind, intellect, and ego are "all restrained and all these faculties are offered to the Lord for His use and in His service. Here there is no feeling of 'I' and 'mine'."xiv

When the mind has become purified by yoga practices, it becomes able to focus efficiently on one subject or point of experience. Now we can unleash the great potential for inner healing.
"[1] On whatever occasion a monk breathing in long discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, discerns, 'I am breathing out long'; or breathing in short, discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, discerns, 'I am breathing out short'; trains himself, 'I will breathe in...&... out sensitive to the entire body'; trains himself, 'I will breathe in...&...out calming bodily fabrication': On that occasion the monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. I tell you, monks, that this — the in-&-out breath — is classed as a body among bodies, which is why the monk on that occasion remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
VII. Dhyana (Devotion , Meditation on the Divine)

Dhyana means worship, or profound and abstract religious meditation. It is perfect contemplation. It involves concentration upon a point of focus with the intention of knowing the truth about it. The concept holds that when one focuses their mind in concentration on an object the mind is transformed into the shape of the object. Hence, when one focuses on the divine they become more reflective of it and they know their true nature. "His body, breath, senses, mind, reason and ego are all integrated in the object of his contemplation – the Universal Spirit."xv

During dhyana, the consciousness is further unified by combining clear insights into distinctions between objects and between the subtle layers of perception. "We learn to differentiate between the mind of the perceiver, the means of perception, and the objects perceived, between words, their meanings, and ideas, and between all the levels of evolution of nature."xvi

As we fine-tune our concentration and become more aware of the nature of reality we perceive that the world is unreal. "The only reality is the universal self, or God, which is veiled by Maya (the illusory power). As the veils are lifted, the mind becomes clearer. Unhappiness and fear – even the fear of death – vanishes. This state of freedom, or Moksha, is the goal of Yoga. It can be reached by constant enquiry into the nature of things."xvii Meditation becomes our tool to see things clearly and perceive reality beyond the illusions that cloud our mind.
Form is like a glob of foam;
feeling, a bubble;
perception, a mirage;
fabrications, a banana tree;
consciousness, a magic trick —
this has been taught
by the Kinsman of the Sun.
However you observe them,
appropriately examine them,
they're empty, void
to whoever sees them
appropriately.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
VIII. Samadhi (Union with the Divine)

The final step in the eight-fold path of Yoga is the attainment of Samadhi. Samadhi means "to bring together, to merge." In the state of samadhi the body and senses are at rest, as if asleep, yet the faculty of mind and reason are alert, as if awake; one goes beyond consciousness. During samadhi, we realize what it is to be an identity without differences, and how a liberated soul can enjoy pure awareness of this pure identity. The conscious mind drops back into that unconscious oblivion from which it first emerged.

Thus, samadhi refers to union or true Yoga. There is an ending to the separation that is created by the "I" and "mine" of our illusory perceptions of reality. The mind does not distinguish between self and non-self, or between the object contemplated and the process of contemplation. The mind and the intellect have stopped and there is only the experience of consciousness, truth and unutterable joy.

The achievement of samadhi is a difficult task. For this reason the Yoga Sutra suggests the practice of asanas and pranayama as preparation for dharana, because these influence mental activities and create space in the crowded schedule of the mind. Once dharana has occurred, dhyana and samadhi can follow.

These eight steps of yoga indicate a logical pathway that leads to the attainment of physical, ethical, emotional, and psycho-spiritual health. Yoga does not seek to change the individual; rather, it allows the natural state of total health and integration in each of us to become a reality.xviii
"Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

Dinsdale
Posts: 5930
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:27 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:45 am
If I understand correctly, Brahman is not the personal, it is the unconditioned which is said to be ineffable and beyond all descriptions. It seems the 'hangup' is with atman and the identification that takes place within the Vedantic tradition. Buddhism doesn't posit an atman, but it does posit nibbana, which is uncondtioned and ineffable, beyond words and all 'self' experience. Brahman is the same but it is explained as 'eternal'. Some Buddhists also explain nibbana as eternal. It seems it is just a way of describing something that cannot be grasped and the use of words confuses the whole issue. Buddhists did not invent nibbana. They also don't have any ownership of it. That also goes for Hindus/Vedantists.
:goodpost:

As I understand it both Atman/Brahman and Nibbana are impersonal. And some interpretations of Nibbana look rather similar to Atman/Brahman.
Last edited by Dinsdale on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Dinsdale
Posts: 5930
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:02 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:51 pm
Another point is the term Hinduism is a latter invention.
I don't think that's true.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Dinsdale
Posts: 5930
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:04 am

No_Mind wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:06 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:04 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:15 am
How similar is it to Buddhist practice (compare practice to practice .. do not go off topic and keep repeating ad nauseum DO and 4NT exists only in Buddhism .. yes I know and do not disagree ..)
I have the impression that both traditions involve a "seeing through" of personal experience. In Hinduism there is a deeper reality "beneath" the personal ( Atman/Brahman ), while in Buddhism there is Nibbana....
Perfect .. just what I have been trying to tell everyone for years and gotten accused of being a low life atman-peddler.

:namaste:
Some Hindus regard Buddhism as another school of Hinduism, but I think that is going too far. :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by No_Mind » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:21 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:04 am
No_Mind wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:06 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:04 pm


I have the impression that both traditions involve a "seeing through" of personal experience. In Hinduism there is a deeper reality "beneath" the personal ( Atman/Brahman ), while in Buddhism there is Nibbana....
Perfect .. just what I have been trying to tell everyone for years and gotten accused of being a low life atman-peddler.

:namaste:
Some Hindus regard Buddhism as another school of Hinduism, but I think that is going too far. :tongue:
Not if you consider etymology of the word Hindu

India has two names in vernacular -- Bharat (land of King Bharat) and Hindusthan (land of Hindus).

The latter name is Persian and obviously bestowed on us by Muslim invaders from 10th century.

Hindu was the ancient Persian word for people living around or beyond Sindhu river (circa 500 BC, reign of Darius I). Since these people on the whole followed the Vedic religion, it came to be known as Hinduism. Sindhu river was called Indus by Romans, the people of the Indus were called Indoi by the Greeks and very probably this was the root of the name India used in English.

The word Hindu is more geographically descriptive than religiously descriptive and it does not imply the former and the latter coincide exactly.

There are nine schools (or ten if one counts Ajivikas) of philosophy that originated in Hindusthan --

Six schools of astika Hinduism -- Samkhya, Yoga, Nyaya, Vaisheshika, Purva Mimamsa (Vedas), Uttar Mimamsa (Vedanta) ; these are derived from Vedas

Three schools of nastika Hinduism -- Buddhism, Jainism, Carvaka ; these are not derived from Vedas

Looking at it that way (philosophies of Hindusthan) Buddhism is a school of Hindu philosophy.

Not to suggest Buddhism is a branch of Hinduism (as in being Vedic in origin). Hindus consider Buddhism and Jainism to be sibling religions (not offshoots).

In way like the expression Abrahamic faiths is used to describe Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

auto
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by auto » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:50 pm

Buddhism say there is no self, skandhas; layers of being just add weight to that notion.
If chakras are layers of being. Then the 5th is throat chakra.
So the head area is left out. The atman could be 6th chakra.

Also skandhas could also be dimensions.

3rd dimension is needed to have experience. The 3rd dimension appears by noticing a detail, it is perception. First two skandhas are material; nonarisen while 2nd skandha is arisen from 1st.
3rd skandha is base for 4th like catapult when the rope is sliced then it throws a rock. 5th skandha is time, there is no time, no space, it is like you don't have to bring fire from point a to b, you can met the conditions and fire appears in no time, no space traveled.

Soul, atman is beyond 5th skandha, starting from 6th.

SarathW
Posts: 9996
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Hindu Practice Vs Buddhist Practice

Post by SarathW » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:53 pm

The world religions tree.
Accordingly, Buddhism is connected to Sharmana tradition.
http://www.the40foundation.org/zoomify/spiritree.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 58 guests