Saengnapha wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:13 am
Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:42 pm
dharmacorps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:54 pm
RIght, that's a example of what I was saying-- a description of the state of nibbana which is somewhat fundamentally ineffable in the Pali Canon IS described in other Buddhist religions. Sometimes they don't even seem like the same religion because of those vast differences.
Can you elaborate? Which interpretations of nibbāna do u refer to? Abiding and non-abiding?
It seems like ineffability is common throughout all religions when talking about a transcendent reality no matter what it is called.
If we take Nagarjuna's writings as the definitive 'view' on Mahayana, does he talk about abiding or non-abiding as the descriptive for Nibbana?
I think he would argue along the lines of Ratnāvalī
XLII or Mūlamadhyamakakārikā
XXV:
In liberation there is neither self nor are there aggregates.
If liberation is asserted thus,
Why is the removal here of the self
and of the aggregates not liked by you?
If nirvāṇa is not a non-thing,
Just how could it have thingness?
The extinction of the misconception
Of things and non-things is called nirvāṇa.
That which when dependent or conditioned comes into and goes out of existence,
that, when not conditioned or dependent, is called nirvāṇa.
Mahāyāna proposes an
apratiṣṭhitanirvāṇa (non-abiding extinguishment) in accordance with
Nirvāṇaparīkṣā Nāgārjunasya, or the above-quoted MMK
XXV.
Nirvāṇa does not have any qualities whatsoever, at least as far as Madhyamaka analysis goes. From there, it follows to the Mahāyānist that nirvāṇa cannot be
pratiṣṭhita ('abiding', 'contained', 'situated'). The logic goes something like this:
Thus have I heard: At one time, the Bhagavān was at Vulture’s Peak in Rājagṛiha, together with eighty-three fully-ordained bhikṣavaḥ, and many hundreds of thousands of millions of bodhisattvāḥ, who were all abiding together in one company.
Thereupon, at that time, at that moment, the Bhagavān gave teaching to the Venerable Ānanda thus:
“Ānanda! This is the Far-Reaching Perfection of Deep Insight in a Single Syllable. For the benefit and happiness of all sentient beings, you should retain this! And it goes thus: ཨཱ། [āḥ]."
The Bhagavān spoke those words, and the bhikṣavaḥ, bodhisattvāḥ, and all the assemblies of gods, humans, demigods and celestial spirits, along with the entire world, rejoiced: they deeply praised what had been spoken by the Bhagavān, the transcendent and accomplished Jina.
(The One-Syllable Wisdom-Perfection, Ākakasharamprajñāpāramitāsarvatathāgatamanāma)
"A-", in Sanskrit as well as numerous Indo-European languages, Greek, Latin, etc., has the property of negation. Kusala. Akusala. Pratiṣṭhita. Apratiṣṭhita.
This is the foundational interpretive difference that divides bodhisattvayāna & śrāvakayāna afaik. This is why Mahāyāna Buddhas get to run around emanating & whatnot while Theravāda Buddhas remain in an "abiding" extinguishment.
The obvious responce, to the above "Nirvāṇa does not have any qualities whatsoever, at least as far as Madhyamaka analysis goes." is the following: "Well, that's all fine and well, but, it
does have a quality. You just said it. This 'apratiṣṭhitatā' business."
But it should be noted that, ideally, apratiṣṭhita is
not an affirmation, it is simply an indication of freedom from an extreme.
IMO & afaik of course.
