Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Kusala
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Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by Kusala » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:32 pm

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"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

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"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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DooDoot
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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by DooDoot » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:53 am

Contrary to what Ajahn Brahm appeared to say, 'mindfulness' ('sati') was obviously not invented by Buddhism. Instead, Right Mindfulness (Samma Sati) was invented by Buddhism. Also, Ajahn Brahm's view that mind is independent of brain is obviously not something totally Buddhist since certain suttas appear to refute AB's view. AB is certainly continuing to develop the ideology of his sectarian sect, such as happiness is not in the body.
Last edited by DooDoot on Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:22 am, edited 3 times in total.

Saengnapha
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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:00 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:53 am
Contrary to what Ajahn Brahm appeared to say, 'mindfulness' ('sati') was obviously not invented by Buddhism. Instead, Right Mindfulness (Samma Sati) was invented by Buddhism. Also, Ajahn Brahm's view that mind is independent of brain is obviously not something totally Buddhist since certain suttas appear to refute AB's view. AB is certainly continuing to develop the ideology of his sectarian sect, such as happiness is not in the body.
+1 :twothumbsup:

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DooDoot
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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by DooDoot » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:48 am

Saengnapha wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:00 am
+1 :twothumbsup:
The best part of the talk is at @45:28 to 45:44 :twothumbsup: Can't deny AB can be a supernormally funny guy. :namaste: @46:00 to 46:45 :rofl:

SarathW
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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by SarathW » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:46 am

Ajahn Brahm's view that mind is independent of brain is obviously not something totally Buddhist since certain suttas appear to refute AB's view.
I agree. The consciousness arises depend on conditions.
I wonder anybody (other monks) are allowed to question him.
Following is the Sutta support.

In dependence on the intellect & ideas there arises intellect-consciousness. The intellect is inconstant, changeable, of a nature to become otherwise. Ideas are inconstant, changeable, of a nature to become otherwise. Thus this pair is both wavering & fluctuating — inconstant, changeable, of a nature to become otherwise.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by Meezer77 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:25 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:53 am
Contrary to what Ajahn Brahm appeared to say, 'mindfulness' ('sati') was obviously not invented by Buddhism. Instead, Right Mindfulness (Samma Sati) was invented by Buddhism. Also, Ajahn Brahm's view that mind is independent of brain is obviously not something totally Buddhist since certain suttas appear to refute AB's view. AB is certainly continuing to develop the ideology of his sectarian sect, such as happiness is not in the body.
Yes, I've never been able to understand how the mind is separate from the brain. Is anyone able to explain this in plain English for me?

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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by SarathW » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:09 am

Yes, I've never been able to understand how the mind is separate from the brain. Is anyone able to explain this in plain English for me?
There is a state of consciousness named Infinity of consciousness.
This is an extension of the fourth Jhana.
Some people argue that people who are borne to this formless spher do not have a Rupa or body.
It seems consciousness can be sustained in its own power.
But this is subject to many disagreements.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by Zom » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:37 pm

Some people argue that people who are borne to this formless spher do not have a Rupa or body.
I'd say it this way: "some people argue that those who are born there do have body/rupa". Because normally buddhists don't have such strange ideas.
Yes, I've never been able to understand how the mind is separate from the brain. Is anyone able to explain this in plain English for me?
It is strongly interconnected with the brain if we speak about beings with body. But interconnected doesn't mean that it is the same as brain or it is the same as matter. Matter is one thing, mind is another.

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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by Saengnapha » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:03 pm

Zom wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:37 pm
Some people argue that people who are borne to this formless spher do not have a Rupa or body.
I'd say it this way: "some people argue that those who are born there do have body/rupa". Because normally buddhists don't have such strange ideas.
Yes, I've never been able to understand how the mind is separate from the brain. Is anyone able to explain this in plain English for me?
It is strongly interconnected with the brain if we speak about beings with body. But interconnected doesn't mean that it is the same as brain or it is the same as matter. Matter is one thing, mind is another.
What other?

Meezer77
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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by Meezer77 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:14 pm

Zom wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:37 pm
Some people argue that people who are borne to this formless spher do not have a Rupa or body.
I'd say it this way: "some people argue that those who are born there do have body/rupa". Because normally buddhists don't have such strange ideas.
Yes, I've never been able to understand how the mind is separate from the brain. Is anyone able to explain this in plain English for me?
It is strongly interconnected with the brain if we speak about beings with body. But interconnected doesn't mean that it is the same as brain or it is the same as matter. Matter is one thing, mind is another.

Say for instance someone has dementia and forgets they are Buddhist. How does it work then? The chemistry in brain affects your intelligence, moods, behaviours, etc. Golly I'm confused

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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by Zom » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:26 pm

Say for instance someone has dementia and forgets they are Buddhist. How does it work then? The chemistry in brain affects your intelligence, moods, behaviours, etc. Golly I'm confused
Yes, it affects. As I said, there is strong interconnection. If you have dementia or smth, it ruins all the system (psychophysical organism, mind+matter) and you've got a total malfunction which affects all your "components" - not only 1 component .) Imagine a knotted ball which consists of 2 threads, lets say, red and yellow. If you strongly pull only yellow one, you affect all the ball as a whole, that is, a red one is also pulled.

However, with the power of jhana you can lessen this interconnection. Certain material things won't affect your jhanic mind - like, for example, physical pain, which totally disappears even in the 1st jhana. It seems like you can release your mind to a certain extent there, free it a bit from materiality (full release though doesn't happen until you reach 1st immaterial jhana known as "sphere of infinite space").

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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:13 pm

SarathW wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:46 am
I wonder anybody (other monks) are allowed to question him.
Yes, all the time. At tea-time at Bodhinyana Monastery, he and all the monks have good discussions, and often some of the monks disagree with Ajahn Brahm. Even the junior monks or novices are allowed to tell him they think he is wrong, and that's their opinion. Ajahn Brahmali especially is very knowledgeable, and to listen to those two ajahns argue a point, or discuss, is quite thrilling!

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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by SarathW » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:28 pm

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:13 pm
SarathW wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:46 am
I wonder anybody (other monks) are allowed to question him.
Yes, all the time. At tea-time at Bodhinyana Monastery, he and all the monks have good discussions, and often some of the monks disagree with Ajahn Brahm. Even the junior monks or novices are allowed to tell him they think he is wrong, and that's their opinion. Ajahn Brahmali especially is very knowledgeable, and to listen to those two ajahns argue a point, or discuss, is quite thrilling!
Thank you, James.
It is great we have these wonderful monks with us.
Have you considered going back yet?
;)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by Meezer77 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:44 pm

Zom wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:26 pm
Say for instance someone has dementia and forgets they are Buddhist. How does it work then? The chemistry in brain affects your intelligence, moods, behaviours, etc. Golly I'm confused
Yes, it affects. As I said, there is strong interconnection. If you have dementia or smth, it ruins all the system (psychophysical organism, mind+matter) and you've got a total malfunction which affects all your "components" - not only 1 component .) Imagine a knotted ball which consists of 2 threads, lets say, red and yellow. If you strongly pull only yellow one, you affect all the ball as a whole, that is, a red one is also pulled.

However, with the power of jhana you can lessen this interconnection. Certain material things won't affect your jhanic mind - like, for example, physical pain, which totally disappears even in the 1st jhana. It seems like you can release your mind to a certain extent there, free it a bit from materiality (full release though doesn't happen until you reach 1st immaterial jhana known as "sphere of infinite space").

So can it be said then that if you master the Jhanas you're immune from ever getting dementia?

SarathW
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Re: Ajahn Brahm Responds To "Secular Mindfulness"

Post by SarathW » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:11 pm

Say for instance someone has dementia and forgets they are Buddhist. How does it work then? The chemistry in brain affects your intelligence, moods, behaviours, etc. Golly I'm confused
Is this similar to a question what will happen to an Arahant while s/he is in sleep?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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