Chan Buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Saengnapha
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by Saengnapha »

bodom wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:57 am
DNS wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:06 am I like Chan too! If I were not Theravada / Modern Theravada, I'd probably be practicing Chan.
Hey David

I have always said that as well. I use sort of a combination of the two in my meditation practice which is influenced by Ajahn Sumedho's instructions. In turn Ajahn Sumedho's teachings are heavily influenced by the time he spent practicing first with a Chan teacher and then with Ajahn Chah. When Ajahn Sumedho arrived at Ajahn Chahs monastery Chah asked him what sort of meditation he was doing. Sumedho answered that he had been using instructions he learned from a Chan retreat and said he had gotten good results. Ajahn Chah said good. Keep practicing. The two traditions are very complimentary.

:namaste:
Who was the Chan teacher that Sumedho studied with?
Many great Chan masters to read. Some favorites are Huangbo, Huineng, Zongmi, and Hongzhi. Mazu, Bankei, so many others.
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bodom
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by bodom »

Saengnapha wrote:Who was the Chan teacher that Sumedho studied with?
Many great Chan masters to read. Some favorites are Huangbo, Huineng, Zongmi, and Hongzhi. Mazu, Bankei, so many others.
Venerable Master Hsu Yun .

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Of course there is the Chan sutra of Hui Neng's teachings - Sixth Patriarch's sutra or Platform Sutra are some of the titles in English. Master Hua has a wonderful commentary in the BTTS version.

Chinese Buddhism long ago or now is very eclectic. They make use of the Dao, Kungfutzu and all sorts of Buddhism in the mix. Even modern Chan is commonly a blend of Amita Buddha Pure Land & Chan.

One of my favorites is the Song of Enlightenment by an old Master - here is one translation:

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... 0Chuen.htm
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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bodom
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by bodom »

Mr Man wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:46 am Essentials of Chan Practice by Master Hsu-yun

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... _Words.pdf

EMPTY CLOUD
The Autobiography of the Chinese Zen Master

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... Xu_Yun.pdf


"The Zen Teaching of Huang Po on the Transmission of Mind" (not sure if this can be read online).
Thank you for this.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
Saengnapha
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by Saengnapha »

bodom wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:50 pm
Mr Man wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:46 am Essentials of Chan Practice by Master Hsu-yun

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... _Words.pdf

EMPTY CLOUD
The Autobiography of the Chinese Zen Master

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... Xu_Yun.pdf


"The Zen Teaching of Huang Po on the Transmission of Mind" (not sure if this can be read online).
Thank you for this.

:namaste:
http://www.selfdiscoveryportal.com/cmHuangPo.htm
Caodemarte
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by Caodemarte »

bodom wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:55 pm
Saengnapha wrote:Who was the Chan teacher that Sumedho studied with?
Many great Chan masters to read. Some favorites are Huangbo, Huineng, Zongmi, and Hongzhi. Mazu, Bankei, so many others.
Venerable Master Hsu Yun .

:namaste:
I am not sure that Sumedho studied personally with Hsu Yun. The story I heard was that he meditated according to the instructions of Hsu Yun which I took to mean “instructions of Hsu Yun as transmitted in writings or through successors.” If anybody knows it would be quite interesting to hear how and where Sumedho met Hsu Yun.
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bodom
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by bodom »

Will wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:33 pm Of course there is the Chan sutra of Hui Neng's teachings - Sixth Patriarch's sutra or Platform Sutra are some of the titles in English. Master Hua has a wonderful commentary in the BTTS version.
I have Red Pines translation and commentary.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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bodom
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by bodom »

Caodemarte wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:13 pm
bodom wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:55 pm
Saengnapha wrote:Who was the Chan teacher that Sumedho studied with?
Many great Chan masters to read. Some favorites are Huangbo, Huineng, Zongmi, and Hongzhi. Mazu, Bankei, so many others.
Venerable Master Hsu Yun .

:namaste:
I am not sure that Sumedho studied personally with Hsu Yun. The story I heard was that he meditated according to the instructions of Hsu Yun which I took to mean “instructions of Hsu Yun as transmitted in writings or through successors.” If anybody knows it would be quite interesting to hear how and where Sumedho met Hsu Yun.
I would be interested as well. Sumedho's meditation instructions cleary have the influence of Chan teachings contained in them. Whatever time he spent training with Chan teachers left an indelible mark on him and his teaching methods. He often mentions using the Chan method of Hua Tuo in his talks as well.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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DNS
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by DNS »

Will wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:33 pm Chinese Buddhism long ago or now is very eclectic. They make use of the Dao, Kungfutzu and all sorts of Buddhism in the mix. Even modern Chan is commonly a blend of Amita Buddha Pure Land & Chan.
Yes, I've noticed this too. It's sort of like Buddhayana. Some previous attempts at creating a 'One Dharma' have not been too successful (Triratana/FWBO). In Chan, there is Pure Land type Amitabha chanting, followed by Chan meditation which is very similar if not identical to Theravada meditation, monastic clergy of monks and nuns and the diet is mostly centered on a large lunch with very little dinner (afaik) of just fruit or snacks. It seems to be a nice mix of the major forms of Buddhism; Theravada, Mahayana, Chan/Zen.
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aflatun
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by aflatun »

bodom wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:27 am

Thanks aflatun. Sheng Yen is actually who I have been reading. I have a copy of Silent Illumination sitting next to me. It is the book that sparked my interest in Chan. It is an excellent book. Very simple but very profound. I have another book of his that has been very helpful called Dharma Drum.

I am going to be ordering his book on the 37 bodhi-pakkhiya-dhammas or wings to awakening. I've never heard any Mahayana teachers ever mention them before. Chan is an awesome tradition and I'm glad I came across Sheng Yens books.

:namaste:

Then I am not surprised that you are smitten with Chan! As you say, very simple but profound. He had a brilliant way of getting to the heart of things in a very direct manner. Let us know how the new book goes!

The book on Hua Tou I was thinking of was Knocking Gently on the Door of Chan by Master Sheng Yen's disciple, master Guo Ru (not to be confused with his other disciple, Guo Gu!). It's a different approach than Silent Illumination but apparently one that Master Sheng Yen taught as well. I was skeptical of this approach for a while because I suspected an eternalist agenda behind this practice, but I was wrong:
During meditation retreats, at first Master Sheng Yen did not restrict us to any one huatou. We were sometimes taught to ask, “Who is being mindful of the Buddha?” or “Who is it before birth?” In the walking meditation period, he thundered, “Who is dragging this corpse along?” In the sitting period, he exhorted, “Who is sitting here with mortal flesh?” Closely related to our lives, each of these questions aroused a sense of doubt.

According to my personal experience, “Who is dragging this corpse along?” was the most useful huatou. Who was I once my breathing stopped? I was more closely connected to such a huatou because I had suffered from a very serious illness and thus feared death. It was easier for this huatou to arouse a sense of doubt in me. After a sense of doubt arose, I often felt “something seemingly appearing before my very eyes.” It was as if a beam of light appeared in my mind, as if there was something or some state I could hold on to or attain. It is inaccessible if we try to get into it. Only when our mind has no intention can we gain access.

Once entering the state, we will find it wonderful, or even believe it to be enlightenment. We will be doomed with such a misconception, for it is merely a physical and mental change in the state of meditative concentration. Many people are stuck in this state, believing they are enlightened, and thus get trapped in the practice of “wild Chan.” Therefore, such a huatou as “Who is dragging this corpse along?” or “Who is sitting here with mortal flesh?” may sometimes make Chan practitioners mistakenly believe that there is something to pursue, to obtain, that there are “a truly existing object,” “a real practitioner,” and even “an attainable state.” In that case, it is impossible to be connected to the true mind of purity. So in his later meditation instruction my master adopted the huatou “wu” (literally, “nonexistent”) advocated by Master Dahui Zonggao.
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16
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bodom
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by bodom »

Thank you aflatun good stuff! :sage:

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
sentinel
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Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by sentinel »

Hi guys , just like to share a Chan story here .

Master Dong Liang and his Master Yun Yan .

One day , Master Dong Liang because feeling puzzled by his master teachings , he asked his master ;

Master , you said even the trees and the nature are also expounding the dharma ?

Master Yun Yan replied : oh , definitely !

Master Dong Liang : but , I don't understand , I really don't hear anything !?

Master Yun Yan : I see , you are listening using your ears , that's why you can't hear it !

Master Dong Liang : master , how should I listen then ?

Master Yun Yan : ah ha , that's easy , you should use your eyes to hear instead !

At that moment , upon hearing that , Master Dong Liang realized instantly .
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