Chan Buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Saengnapha
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by Saengnapha » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:23 am

bodom wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:57 am
DNS wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:06 am
I like Chan too! If I were not Theravada / Modern Theravada, I'd probably be practicing Chan.
Hey David

I have always said that as well. I use sort of a combination of the two in my meditation practice which is influenced by Ajahn Sumedho's instructions. In turn Ajahn Sumedho's teachings are heavily influenced by the time he spent practicing first with a Chan teacher and then with Ajahn Chah. When Ajahn Sumedho arrived at Ajahn Chahs monastery Chah asked him what sort of meditation he was doing. Sumedho answered that he had been using instructions he learned from a Chan retreat and said he had gotten good results. Ajahn Chah said good. Keep practicing. The two traditions are very complimentary.

:namaste:
Who was the Chan teacher that Sumedho studied with?
Many great Chan masters to read. Some favorites are Huangbo, Huineng, Zongmi, and Hongzhi. Mazu, Bankei, so many others.

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5880
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by bodom » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:55 pm

Saengnapha wrote:Who was the Chan teacher that Sumedho studied with?
Many great Chan masters to read. Some favorites are Huangbo, Huineng, Zongmi, and Hongzhi. Mazu, Bankei, so many others.
Venerable Master Hsu Yun .

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


"Dont send the mind outside. Watch the mind right at the mind."

- Ajahn Dune Atulo

User avatar
Will
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
Location: So Cal

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by Will » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:33 pm

Of course there is the Chan sutra of Hui Neng's teachings - Sixth Patriarch's sutra or Platform Sutra are some of the titles in English. Master Hua has a wonderful commentary in the BTTS version.

Chinese Buddhism long ago or now is very eclectic. They make use of the Dao, Kungfutzu and all sorts of Buddhism in the mix. Even modern Chan is commonly a blend of Amita Buddha Pure Land & Chan.

One of my favorites is the Song of Enlightenment by an old Master - here is one translation:

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... 0Chuen.htm
The greatest homage we can pay to truth is to use it. -- Emerson

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5880
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by bodom » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:50 pm

Mr Man wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:46 am
Essentials of Chan Practice by Master Hsu-yun

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... _Words.pdf

EMPTY CLOUD
The Autobiography of the Chinese Zen Master

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... Xu_Yun.pdf


"The Zen Teaching of Huang Po on the Transmission of Mind" (not sure if this can be read online).
Thank you for this.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


"Dont send the mind outside. Watch the mind right at the mind."

- Ajahn Dune Atulo

Saengnapha
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by Saengnapha » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:49 pm

bodom wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:50 pm
Mr Man wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:46 am
Essentials of Chan Practice by Master Hsu-yun

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... _Words.pdf

EMPTY CLOUD
The Autobiography of the Chinese Zen Master

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... Xu_Yun.pdf


"The Zen Teaching of Huang Po on the Transmission of Mind" (not sure if this can be read online).
Thank you for this.

:namaste:
http://www.selfdiscoveryportal.com/cmHuangPo.htm

Caodemarte
Posts: 756
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 3:21 pm

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by Caodemarte » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:13 pm

bodom wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:55 pm
Saengnapha wrote:Who was the Chan teacher that Sumedho studied with?
Many great Chan masters to read. Some favorites are Huangbo, Huineng, Zongmi, and Hongzhi. Mazu, Bankei, so many others.
Venerable Master Hsu Yun .

:namaste:
I am not sure that Sumedho studied personally with Hsu Yun. The story I heard was that he meditated according to the instructions of Hsu Yun which I took to mean “instructions of Hsu Yun as transmitted in writings or through successors.” If anybody knows it would be quite interesting to hear how and where Sumedho met Hsu Yun.

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5880
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by bodom » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:16 pm

Will wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:33 pm
Of course there is the Chan sutra of Hui Neng's teachings - Sixth Patriarch's sutra or Platform Sutra are some of the titles in English. Master Hua has a wonderful commentary in the BTTS version.
I have Red Pines translation and commentary.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


"Dont send the mind outside. Watch the mind right at the mind."

- Ajahn Dune Atulo

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5880
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by bodom » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:21 pm

Caodemarte wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:13 pm
bodom wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:55 pm
Saengnapha wrote:Who was the Chan teacher that Sumedho studied with?
Many great Chan masters to read. Some favorites are Huangbo, Huineng, Zongmi, and Hongzhi. Mazu, Bankei, so many others.
Venerable Master Hsu Yun .

:namaste:
I am not sure that Sumedho studied personally with Hsu Yun. The story I heard was that he meditated according to the instructions of Hsu Yun which I took to mean “instructions of Hsu Yun as transmitted in writings or through successors.” If anybody knows it would be quite interesting to hear how and where Sumedho met Hsu Yun.
I would be interested as well. Sumedho's meditation instructions cleary have the influence of Chan teachings contained in them. Whatever time he spent training with Chan teachers left an indelible mark on him and his teaching methods. He often mentions using the Chan method of Hua Tuo in his talks as well.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


"Dont send the mind outside. Watch the mind right at the mind."

- Ajahn Dune Atulo

User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 10947
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by DNS » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:36 pm

Will wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:33 pm
Chinese Buddhism long ago or now is very eclectic. They make use of the Dao, Kungfutzu and all sorts of Buddhism in the mix. Even modern Chan is commonly a blend of Amita Buddha Pure Land & Chan.
Yes, I've noticed this too. It's sort of like Buddhayana. Some previous attempts at creating a 'One Dharma' have not been too successful (Triratana/FWBO). In Chan, there is Pure Land type Amitabha chanting, followed by Chan meditation which is very similar if not identical to Theravada meditation, monastic clergy of monks and nuns and the diet is mostly centered on a large lunch with very little dinner (afaik) of just fruit or snacks. It seems to be a nice mix of the major forms of Buddhism; Theravada, Mahayana, Chan/Zen.

User avatar
aflatun
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:40 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by aflatun » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:19 am

bodom wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:27 am


Thanks aflatun. Sheng Yen is actually who I have been reading. I have a copy of Silent Illumination sitting next to me. It is the book that sparked my interest in Chan. It is an excellent book. Very simple but very profound. I have another book of his that has been very helpful called Dharma Drum.

I am going to be ordering his book on the 37 bodhi-pakkhiya-dhammas or wings to awakening. I've never heard any Mahayana teachers ever mention them before. Chan is an awesome tradition and I'm glad I came across Sheng Yens books.

:namaste:

Then I am not surprised that you are smitten with Chan! As you say, very simple but profound. He had a brilliant way of getting to the heart of things in a very direct manner. Let us know how the new book goes!

The book on Hua Tou I was thinking of was Knocking Gently on the Door of Chan by Master Sheng Yen's disciple, master Guo Ru (not to be confused with his other disciple, Guo Gu!). It's a different approach than Silent Illumination but apparently one that Master Sheng Yen taught as well. I was skeptical of this approach for a while because I suspected an eternalist agenda behind this practice, but I was wrong:
During meditation retreats, at first Master Sheng Yen did not restrict us to any one huatou. We were sometimes taught to ask, “Who is being mindful of the Buddha?” or “Who is it before birth?” In the walking meditation period, he thundered, “Who is dragging this corpse along?” In the sitting period, he exhorted, “Who is sitting here with mortal flesh?” Closely related to our lives, each of these questions aroused a sense of doubt.

According to my personal experience, “Who is dragging this corpse along?” was the most useful huatou. Who was I once my breathing stopped? I was more closely connected to such a huatou because I had suffered from a very serious illness and thus feared death. It was easier for this huatou to arouse a sense of doubt in me. After a sense of doubt arose, I often felt “something seemingly appearing before my very eyes.” It was as if a beam of light appeared in my mind, as if there was something or some state I could hold on to or attain. It is inaccessible if we try to get into it. Only when our mind has no intention can we gain access.

Once entering the state, we will find it wonderful, or even believe it to be enlightenment. We will be doomed with such a misconception, for it is merely a physical and mental change in the state of meditative concentration. Many people are stuck in this state, believing they are enlightened, and thus get trapped in the practice of “wild Chan.” Therefore, such a huatou as “Who is dragging this corpse along?” or “Who is sitting here with mortal flesh?” may sometimes make Chan practitioners mistakenly believe that there is something to pursue, to obtain, that there are “a truly existing object,” “a real practitioner,” and even “an attainable state.” In that case, it is impossible to be connected to the true mind of purity. So in his later meditation instruction my master adopted the huatou “wu” (literally, “nonexistent”) advocated by Master Dahui Zonggao.
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5880
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by bodom » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:56 am

Thank you aflatun good stuff! :sage:

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


"Dont send the mind outside. Watch the mind right at the mind."

- Ajahn Dune Atulo

James Tan
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Chan Buddhism

Post by James Tan » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:46 pm

Hi guys , just like to share a Chan story here .

Master Dong Liang and his Master Yun Yan .

One day , Master Dong Liang because feeling puzzled by his master teachings , he asked his master ;

Master , you said even the trees and the nature are also expounding the dharma ?

Master Yun Yan replied : oh , definitely !

Master Dong Liang : but , I don't understand , I really don't hear anything !?

Master Yun Yan : I see , you are listening using your ears , that's why you can't hear it !

Master Dong Liang : master , how should I listen then ?

Master Yun Yan : ah ha , that's easy , you should use your eyes to hear instead !

At that moment , upon hearing that , Master Dong Liang realized instantly .
If you take the Middle Path
You will miss out the path !

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 40 guests