Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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SarathW
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by SarathW » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:33 pm

Where I live it is legal to sell sexual services but illegal to buy. Retarded law if you ask me.
This is not a bad law.
If a person is selling sex that could be for their survival.
If we know a person in that position we can help him/her in other means except buying their service.
Perhaps we can donate some money or can help them to find a job.
Perhaps we can ask why do they sell and help to find a solution to their problem.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Disciple
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by Disciple » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:56 pm

SarathW wrote:
Where I live it is legal to sell sexual services but illegal to buy. Retarded law if you ask me.
This is not a bad law.
If a person is selling sex that could be for their survival.
If we know a person in that position we can help him/her in other means except buying their service.
Perhaps we can donate some money or can help them to find a job.
Perhaps we can ask why do they sell and help to find a solution to their problem.
Sarath, social services are available everywhere here, particularly for women. Decent paying jobs are quite attainable too. I would say the vast majority of women who sell their bodies here do it out of personal preference, not out of necessity.

binocular
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by binocular » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:20 pm

Disciple wrote:Sarath, social services are available everywhere here, particularly for women. Decent paying jobs are quite attainable too.
Where do you live??
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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zerotime
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by zerotime » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:06 pm

we should respect (despite no agreement) any person even criminals because people acts according conditions and kamma. So still more with the founders of the great religions.

Cannot understand the later insistence in this board with Islam despite there is an high interest in the world to use the Islam for all sort of things.

I believe there is a golden rule for lay Buddhists in these crazy times: when you see that all the world become very interested in some thing, avoid an excessive attention.

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clw_uk
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:06 pm

zerotime wrote:we should respect (despite no agreement) any person even criminals because people acts according conditions and kamma. So still more with the founders of the great religions.

Cannot understand the later insistence in this board with Islam despite there is an high interest in the world to use the Islam for all sort of things.

I believe there is a golden rule for lay Buddhists in these crazy times: when you see that all the world become very interested in some thing, avoid an excessive attention.
"A feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements."
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/respect

We shouldn't respect everyone and everything. The Buddha didn't respect certain types of behaviour or people. Some people he said were foolish, unworthy of alms etc.
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

davidbrainerd
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by davidbrainerd » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:55 pm

zerotime wrote:we should respect (despite no agreement) any person even criminals because people acts according conditions and kamma.

Youre using respect like respecting human rights by not mistreating someone. But Mohammeds been dead for centuries. So the respect in the question is not this type. (And even in this type of respect one is more respecting the ideal of human rights than the person.)

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BasementBuddhist
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by BasementBuddhist » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:43 pm

This is a fun question to consider if you take a moment to stop considering Muhammad as some barbaric Muslim "other" and just sit with it for a while.

Also, I hate to point this out but Respect is much like Self, variable, a matter of opinion, and entirely dependent on who is asking.

davidbrainerd
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by davidbrainerd » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:40 pm

BasementBuddhist wrote:This is a fun question to consider if you take a moment to stop considering Muhammad as some barbaric Muslim "other" and just sit with it for a while.

Also, I hate to point this out but Respect is much like Self, variable, a matter of opinion, and entirely dependent on who is asking.
You mean like reading the Koran? Go ahead. I've read it. And if you read it you find he was a barbaric murderer. But don't take my word for it read it for yourself. There's two types of people with respect to Islam: (1) those who say Islam is a religion of peace and Mohammed was a great spiritual teacher, and (2) those who've read the Koran.

Caodemarte
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by Caodemarte » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:58 pm

davidbrainerd wrote:....You mean like reading the Koran? Go ahead. I've read it. And if you read it you find he was a barbaric murderer. But don't take my word for it read it for yourself. There's two types of people with respect to Islam: (1) those who say Islam is a religion of peace and Mohammed was a great spiritual teacher, and (2) those who've read the Koran.
A normal reader would not come to that conclusion as shown by the fact that millions, if not billions, of people have read, memorized, studied, recited the Koran and come to conclusion 1. Many of those are not Muslims as I am not.

binocular
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by binocular » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:04 pm

davidbrainerd wrote:You mean like reading the Koran? Go ahead. I've read it. And if you read it you find he was a barbaric murderer. But don't take my word for it read it for yourself. There's two types of people with respect to Islam: (1) those who say Islam is a religion of peace and Mohammed was a great spiritual teacher, and (2) those who've read the Koran.
David, you really need to learn the art of obfuscation in religious discourse!
:spy:
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

Yan kong
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by Yan kong » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:17 am

davidbrainerd wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:55 pm
zerotime wrote:we should respect (despite no agreement) any person even criminals because people acts according conditions and kamma.

Youre using respect like respecting human rights by not mistreating someone. But Mohammeds been dead for centuries. So the respect in the question is not this type. (And even in this type of respect one is more respecting the ideal of human rights than the person.)
Respect or non respect doesn't enter into it as mentioned. As a sentient being we cultivate compassion for Mohammed and his follows regardless of their alleged crimes. I will add that this doesn't mean those crimes are condoned, and neither are many Muslims guilty of any crimes.

He is not worthy of veneration from a Buddhist perspective because he didn't hold right view. Which only means one would not follow his path.

Though I get the idea that you don't really care what a bunch of Buddhists think. You just want to argue your jaded view of Islam both past and present.

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Kusala
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by Kusala » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:15 am

clw_uk wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:17 am
From my understanding, Muhammad married Aisha at age seven and consummated the marriage at age 9. This makes Muhammad a paedophile as he engaged in intercourse with her before puberty.

This indicates that Muhammad is not a man worthy of religious respect. Not only did he brake the 4th precept, but he did so in the most horrendous way. Muhammad was a degenerate because of this act, although he also engaged in other less than noble acts. True, he had some good qualities. All men and women do, even Hitler, but I feel what was noble in him can be found elsewhere. As Buddhists we should not respect such a man.
A very thought provoking video...

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He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

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L.N.
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by L.N. » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:42 am

"Connections to Other Paths" to me suggests something better than this.
Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... isha-truth
https://www.islamicity.org/forum/printe ... p?TID=7143
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

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Mr Man
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by Mr Man » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:40 am

Kusala wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:15 am

A very thought provoking video...

Hi Kusala
What thoughts did the video provoke in you?

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Muhammad - Worthy of respect?

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:07 pm

Caodemarte wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:59 pm
davidbrainerd wrote:....Its from their own books. The only thing they dispute is whether she was 6 or 9, because apparently their sources are contradictory on that point.

No, that is simply not true. What is the motive for this stream of unreasoning hatred?
Hello.

I'll quote the original texts. Note that the islamic canonical scriptures are the Quran, which is the highest authority; the hadiths, of which the Sahih Al Bukhari and the Sahih Muslim are the most reliable; and the Sira, the biographies of Muhammad. These hadiths quoted below are classified as sound, or reliable.

"Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."
Sahih al-Bukhari Book 58 Hadith 234.
https://muflihun.com/bukhari/58/234

"Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old."
Sahih al-Bukhari Book 58 Hadith 236
https://muflihun.com/bukhari/58/236

"Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)."
Sahih al-Bukhari Book 62 Hadith 64
https://muflihun.com/bukhari/62/64

"'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him." Sahih Muslim Book 8 Hadith 3309
https://muflihun.com/muslim/8/3309

"'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (Peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old." Sahih Muslim Book 8 Hadith 3311
https://muflihun.com/muslim/8/3311


If this does not generate excessive controversy, I will quote other original sources that describe several actions of someone unworthy of spiritual worship.

Añjali,
MP
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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