When the Dalai Lama Dies...

[CedarTree]

*I am posting this as I know many Theravada practitioners have an incredible respect for the current Dalai Lama and I think since he is such a huge figure in international Buddhism this topic indirectly affects all Buddhists*

Although I am a Zen Buddhist from the tradition of Kodo Sawaki-Kosho Uchiyama which is now practiced at Gyobutsuji Zen Monastery & Sanshin Zen Community in America as well as Antaiji in Japan I have a deep affinity as I believe many do for the current Dalai Lama.

I know even outside the Mahayana tradition, in Theravada he is deeply respected by some of the senior teachers. In fact I know of one in the Ajahn Chah lineage who has met him and there is a picture which is deeply and proudly shown of this encounter.

As many of us know one of the main positions in choosing the next Dalai Lama is the Panchen Lama. The Dalai Lama and Tibetan Buddhist choice of this child was taken as China took the boy and his family and no one has ever been able to meet or verify his safety since.

There has been rumors that 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje will assume some of the international role and practical role after the death of His Holiness.

For those in the know how is it thought that the choice will be made without the Panchen Lama. Has there been any discussion on this subject?

Additionally I am aware that the Dalai Lama has discussed the possibility of not returning or at least not allow China to control and corrupt the process.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the Western trained monastics in Theravada monasteries especially Ajahn Chah centers made a point of standing with Tibet and against China if China involves itself.

[Disciple]

If I was a theravadin I don't think I'd really care... but as a mahayanist I have respect for the Dalai Lama and hope he reappears in another incarnation.

[Caodemarte]

Not really sure why you are asking here. However, many Theravadins as well as people of all faiths or none have great respect for the Dalai. Theravadin states will make their calculations of what advances their own interests like other states.

The PRC have appointed and raised their own Panchen Lama. It also made failure to reincarnate a crime and declared that only the PRC could appoint reincarnations. In addition to ridiculing this nonsense the Dalai has hinted that the emanation of the collections of tendencies known as the protecting Bodhisattva of Tibet (remember the doctrine of not self) might not emanate at all as a Dalai Lama, or retire before death and dissolve the institution entirely, reincarnate in several persons, possibly some female, be reborn in non-PRC territory, or move his role over to the Karmapa, the young man who heads a powerful order and who escaped to India after decades of cultivation by the Chinese (although another claimant claims to be the real reincarnation). Some of this is having fun with the PRC, but all is possible under Tibetan Buddhism. My own bet is that he retires and the role of the Dalai is dissolved or split up and the Karmapa gets an expanded role.

It gets weirder, but this is is the simple version. What is even simpler is the terrible suffering of the Tibetans under brutal Chinese imperialism.

[DNS]

A woman, non-Tibetan (for a change) Dalai Lama might be good for Dharma propagation.

See: https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=20785

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/as ... 54001.html

I believe there are several other threads on Dharma Wheel (Mahayana) regarding the successor to the Dalai Lama.

[CedarTree]

Not really sure why you are asking here. However, many Theravadins as well as people of all faiths or none have great respect for the Dalai. Theravadin states will make their calculations of what advances their own interests like other states.

The PRC have appointed and raised their own Panchen Lama. It also made failure to reincarnate a crime and declared that only the PRC could appoint reincarnations. In addition to ridiculing this nonsense the Dalai has hinted that the emanation of the collections of tendencies known as the protecting Bodhisattva of Tibet (remember the doctrine of not self) might not emanate at all as a Dalai Lama, or retire before death and dissolve the institution entirely, reincarnate in several persons, possibly some female, be reborn in non-PRC territory, or move his role over to the Karmapa, the young man who heads a powerful order and who escaped to India after decades of cultivation by the Chinese (although another claimant claims to be the real reincarnation). Some of this is having fun with the PRC, but all is possible under Tibetan Buddhism. My own bet is that he retires and the role of the Dalai is dissolved or split up and the Karmapa gets an expanded role.

It gets weirder, but this is is the simple version. What is even simpler is the terrible suffering of the Tibetans under brutal Chinese imperialism.

Cao, very good points. And your right the simple truth is the brutal treatment of Tibetans and Tibetan Buddhism under Chinese imperialism.

I am asking here because when people think of Buddhism many think of the Dalai Lama and so Theravada is impacted by that. The Dalai Lama has done an excellent job at making sure all branches of Buddhism are incredibly well respected. Additionally in places where practice is flourishing (The West) and places that get powerful reputations and large facilities because of fame in the West (Mahasi Lineage, Pa Auk) I can imagine many western Theravada Buddhists will make their voices heard if China tries some really bad moves. As I said I know personally some high elders in the western part of the Ajahn Chah lineage who have met and greatly admire the Dalai Lama.

Additionally there is some interesting aspects around what the Dalai Lama represents which is Avalokiteśvara which is one of the few Bodhisattvas that have shown up in Theravada Countries and practices.

A woman, non-Tibetan (for a change) Dalai Lama might be good for Dharma propagation.

See: https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=20785

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/as ... 54001.html

I believe there are several other threads on Dharma Wheel (Mahayana) regarding the successor to the Dalai Lama.

David, I couldn't agree more I think a female Dalai Lama would be amazing, especially at this point in history!

[Caodemarte]

I want to avoid a criminal charge of "illegal refusal to reincarnate" or "unauthorized rebirth." Would this show up in my permanent record?

By the way, none of this should discourage one from supporting Tibetan lobbying in one's own country. Pressure from other countries might result in more humane treatment at least. Just like the "forgotten" Baltic nations and other suppressed nations, what are Tibetan dreams today may one day come true.

[davidbrainerd]

A woman, non-Tibetan (for a change) Dalai Lama might be good for Dharma propagation.

See: https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=20785

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/as ... 54001.html

I believe there are several other threads on Dharma Wheel (Mahayana) regarding the successor to the Dalai Lama.

Or make it a giant laughingstock.

[chownah]

I want to avoid a criminal charge of "illegal refusal to reincarnate" or "unauthorized rebirth." Would this show up in my permanent record?

I think your record is impermanent just like all the other stuff.
chownah

[binocular]

A woman, non-Tibetan (for a change) Dalai Lama might be good for Dharma propagation.

Or make it a giant laughingstock.

It's not clear how a female Dalai Lama would help Dharma propagation, or the position of women in Buddhism.

[Disciple]

A woman, non-Tibetan (for a change) Dalai Lama might be good for Dharma propagation.

Or make it a giant laughingstock.

It's not clear how a female Dalai Lama would help Dharma propagation, or the position of women in Buddhism.

Maybe a woman Dalai Lama can be used as a source of inspiration for other women? And most of the west is strongly pro Feminist so it would work out quite well probably.

[binocular]

Maybe a woman Dalai Lama can be used as a source of inspiration for other women?

How?

And most of the west is strongly pro Feminist so it would work out quite well probably.

Except that that pro-feminist stance is actually just an outgrowth of male supremacism. Feminists just want to put women in more boxes, boxes still designed by men or in relation to men.

[Disciple]

Except that that pro-feminist stance is actually just an outgrowth of male supremacism. Feminists just want to put women in more boxes, boxes still designed by men or in relation to men.

Interesting viewpoint.

[davidbrainerd]

Maybe a woman Dalai Lama can be used as a source of inspiration for other women? And most of the west is strongly pro Feminist so it would work out quite well probably.

Or maybe it would merely prove the office of Dalai Lama to be a tool of American imperialism and embolden China more against Tibetan Buddhism. Especially, if as was said above, it was both a woman and non-Tibetan. But maybe it would in fact be a good thing for Buddhism generally since the epic fail would rid the world of the rather cultish Tibetan sect, by Tibetan Buddhism completely falling apart.

[Caodemarte]

I want to avoid a criminal charge of "illegal refusal to reincarnate" or "unauthorized rebirth." Would this show up in my permanent record?

I think your record is impermanent just like all the other stuff.
chownah

Not with the eternal Party! As Orwell taught us it permanently represents, and always has, whatever the current policy is until it permanently represents the next shift to something radically different, always did so, and never held the previous policy!

[binocular]

Especially, if as was said above, it was both a woman and non-Tibetan. But maybe it would in fact be a good thing for Buddhism generally since the epic fail would rid the world of the rather cultish Tibetan sect, by Tibetan Buddhism completely falling apart.

Now here's a thought!