That's a good point, it's not which is why Buddha's teaching has us de-contructing such a view. It's just another attachment, another thing separating us from others and the world around us and from direct experience.Bundokji wrote:We know that "identity" or "self" are useful in our daily life when dealing with society and other people, but why believing in a soul is important/useful? what are the consequences of this belief on the individual's behavior and/or well-being?
Soul theories and the Dhamma
- Goofaholix
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Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
Thank you for making explicit that your views have no basis in Buddhist texts and analysis. It will save many of us a lot of time. You are, of course, welcome to continue to compare your ideas with what the Buddha taught.davidbrainerd wrote: At this point I've lost interest in the nikayas as a whole as nothing but a mass of corruption with just a few decent suttas here and there. Buddha's true doctrine is clearly found in the Dhammapada not this mass of nihilist nonsense. And I would imagine that Hindus who venerate Buddha probably also only concern themselves with the Dhammapada and not the collections of nihilist sillyness called the nikayas.
Mike
- Goofaholix
- Posts: 4030
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Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
Clearly you enjoy fluffy feel good imagery over substance, yet fail to understand the truths that the imagery is pointing to. Enjoy your poems.davidbrainerd wrote: At this point I've lost interest in the nikayas as a whole as nothing but a mass of corruption with just a few decent suttas here and there. Buddha's true doctrine is clearly found in the Dhammapada not this mass of nihilist nonsense. And I would imagine that Hindus who venerate Buddha probably also only concern themselves with the Dhammapada and not the collections of nihilist sillyness called the nikayas.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
Your dismissal of the Dhammapada as poetry is simply confirmation that the Dhammapada and the agnostic suttas are documents of rival sects. The only reason the canon makers who were obvious nihlists who hated Buddha's real teachings included the Dhammapada is obviously it was well known as his real teaching and could not be gotten rid of. So instead they merely isolate it and outnumber it by packing nihilism all around. Its the same basic method the Paulinists used against the sermon on the mount.Goofaholix wrote:Clearly you enjoy fluffy feel good imagery over substance, yet fail to understand the truths that the imagery is pointing to. Enjoy your poems.davidbrainerd wrote: At this point I've lost interest in the nikayas as a whole as nothing but a mass of corruption with just a few decent suttas here and there. Buddha's true doctrine is clearly found in the Dhammapada not this mass of nihilist nonsense. And I would imagine that Hindus who venerate Buddha probably also only concern themselves with the Dhammapada and not the collections of nihilist sillyness called the nikayas.
Last edited by davidbrainerd on Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
Do you mean "rival"?davidbrainerd wrote: Your dismissal of the Dhammapada as poetry is simply confirmation that the Dhammapada and the agnostic suttas are documents of revial sects.
Mike
Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
Seeing as the Nikayas are central for Theravada and for the study of early Buddhism by all major academics, your continued hostility towards them is veering into the realm of trolling and proselytizing.davidbrainerd wrote: At this point I've lost interest in the nikayas as a whole as nothing but a mass of corruption with just a few decent suttas here and there. Buddha's true doctrine is clearly found in the Dhammapada not this mass of nihilist nonsense. And I would imagine that Hindus who venerate Buddha probably also only concern themselves with the Dhammapada and not the collections of nihilist sillyness called the nikayas.
Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā — All things decay and disappoint, it is through vigilance that you succeed — Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
Self-taught poverty is a help toward philosophy, for the things which philosophy attempts to teach by reasoning, poverty forces us to practice. — Diogenes of Sinope
I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14
Self-taught poverty is a help toward philosophy, for the things which philosophy attempts to teach by reasoning, poverty forces us to practice. — Diogenes of Sinope
I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14
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Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
And I've already read a great deal of them, and may even continue to do so. But unlike academics I'm not enamored with the constant pointless list-making, repetition, and agnosticism. Short as it is, the Dhammapada by itself has more substantial content in it than like 500 suttas, and its content more suited to practice rather than just regurgitation of lists and nihilistic cliches. I view it as the heart of Buddhism. Without it, you've got nothing. The nikayas without the Dhammapada wouldn't even be readable, but the Dhammapada is readable without the rest and more powerful without the rest which serve as shackles. A few of the other little texts from Khudaka Nikaya like the Udana also seem superior to what's in the other nikaya collections.Javi wrote:Seeing as the Nikayas are central for Theravada and for the study of early Buddhism by all major academics, your continued hostility towards them is veering into the realm of trolling and proselytizing.davidbrainerd wrote: At this point I've lost interest in the nikayas as a whole as nothing but a mass of corruption with just a few decent suttas here and there. Buddha's true doctrine is clearly found in the Dhammapada not this mass of nihilist nonsense. And I would imagine that Hindus who venerate Buddha probably also only concern themselves with the Dhammapada and not the collections of nihilist sillyness called the nikayas.
- Goofaholix
- Posts: 4030
- Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
- Location: New Zealand
Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
I do not dismiss the Dhammapada nor poetry. I'm simply aware, like I think most people, that poetry is not a medium for conveying technical information, laws, or doctrines etc. They are a supplement to prose not a replacement for it. They inspire us to see things differently through imagery and metaphor, I think few people would be so obtuse as to assume the Buddha would hide major doctrinal definitions not found elsewhere in a poem likening taming oneself to taming an elephant.davidbrainerd wrote:Your dismissal of the Dhammapada as poetry is simply confirmation that the Dhammapada and the agnostic suttas are documents of rival sects. The only reason the canon makers who were obvious nihlists who hated Buddha's real teachings included the Dhammapada is obviously it was well known as his real teaching and could not be gotten rid of. So instead they merely isolate it and outnumber it by packing nihilism all around. Its the same basic method the Paulinists used against the sermon on the mount.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
- Goofaholix
- Posts: 4030
- Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
- Location: New Zealand
Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
It has been for quite some time.Javi wrote:Seeing as the Nikayas are central for Theravada and for the study of early Buddhism by all major academics, your continued hostility towards them is veering into the realm of trolling and proselytizing.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
- Goofaholix
- Posts: 4030
- Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
- Location: New Zealand
Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
Perhaps it's time for you to form your own school, Dhammpadavada has a nice ring to it. Perhaps instead of examining the mind and freeing it from greed, aversion, and delusion you could have poetry reading circles.davidbrainerd wrote:Short as it is, the Dhammapada by itself has more substantial content in it than like 500 suttas, and its content more suited to practice rather than just regurgitation of lists and nihilistic cliches.
If you think the Dhammapada is good wait until you try Rumi.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
You are welcome to your opiniondavidbrainerd wrote:And I've already read a great deal of them, and may even continue to do so. But unlike academics I'm not enamored with the constant pointless list-making, repetition, and agnosticism. Short as it is, the Dhammapada by itself has more substantial content in it than like 500 suttas, and its content more suited to practice rather than just regurgitation of lists and nihilistic cliches. I view it as the heart of Buddhism. Without it, you've got nothing. The nikayas without the Dhammapada wouldn't even be readable, but the Dhammapada is readable without the rest and more powerful without the rest which serve as shackles. A few of the other little texts from Khudaka Nikaya like the Udana also seem superior to what's in the other nikaya collections.Javi wrote:Seeing as the Nikayas are central for Theravada and for the study of early Buddhism by all major academics, your continued hostility towards them is veering into the realm of trolling and proselytizing.davidbrainerd wrote: At this point I've lost interest in the nikayas as a whole as nothing but a mass of corruption with just a few decent suttas here and there. Buddha's true doctrine is clearly found in the Dhammapada not this mass of nihilist nonsense. And I would imagine that Hindus who venerate Buddha probably also only concern themselves with the Dhammapada and not the collections of nihilist sillyness called the nikayas.
Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā — All things decay and disappoint, it is through vigilance that you succeed — Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
Self-taught poverty is a help toward philosophy, for the things which philosophy attempts to teach by reasoning, poverty forces us to practice. — Diogenes of Sinope
I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14
Self-taught poverty is a help toward philosophy, for the things which philosophy attempts to teach by reasoning, poverty forces us to practice. — Diogenes of Sinope
I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14
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- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:12 am
Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
I don't read terrorist poetry.Goofaholix wrote:Perhaps it's time for you to form your own school, Dhammpadavada has a nice ring to it. Perhaps instead of examining the mind and freeing it from greed, aversion, and delusion you could have poetry reading circles.davidbrainerd wrote:Short as it is, the Dhammapada by itself has more substantial content in it than like 500 suttas, and its content more suited to practice rather than just regurgitation of lists and nihilistic cliches.
If you think the Dhammapada is good wait until you try Rumi.
- Dhammanando
- Posts: 6512
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Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
It seems you’ve got the wrong Rumi. The poster almost certainly means the Persian Sufi poet, Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi, and not the Bangladeshi jihadist, Aminul Islam Rumi.davidbrainerd wrote:I don't read terrorist poetry.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.
In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
- Goofaholix
- Posts: 4030
- Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
- Location: New Zealand
Re: what do no-selfers think the aggregates are?
Let me get this straight, you appear to be asserting that everyone of a given race or religion is a terrorist?davidbrainerd wrote: I don't read terrorist poetry.
Or perhaps you agree with Erdogen that the descendents of Rumi, the Hizmet, were responsible for the failed coup?
Or is it as Dhammanando suggested?
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: Soul theories and the Dhamma
If anyone who tries to stereotype people based on religion, race, gender, colour, creed and country etc. have a political agenda.that everyone of a given race or religion is a terrorist?
This is my general opinion and not necessarily aiming at David.
This is a result of extreme Maana and we all should try to over come.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”