clw_uk wrote:However I think it's far more interesting to ask if Buddha really believed in the doctrines he expounded, in terms of kamma and rebirth, or if he merely viewed them as being useful? Or perhaps you could say that they aren't views when directly known? I'm not sure.
Buddha taught based on a believe?.....a view?....a fabrication?
SarathW wrote:That is nihilism.
Buddha avoid both eternalism and nihilism and taught dependent origination.
According to Buddha's teaching both eternalism and nihilism are just wrong views. They are neither right nor wrong.
What makes materialism nihilistic? You can still find meaning in a materialistic universe.
However this is off track. The question is about what it means to hold no views in Buddhism. Why is dependent origination not classed as a view point?
To hold no views would be to transcend the not-self (I-am).
can be classed as a view because it is headed by Ignorance.....and that Ignorance can be transcended when the not-self (I-am) is reached.
Same goes with kamma and rebirth
.....yet one is released from that cycle when the not-self (I-am) is reached.
The reason there are views because one is still in it.....samsara.....duality.....right and wrong.....good and bad.....conventional/mundane.....based on a self (I-am).
"There is that dimension".....beyond duality.....reality/supra-mundane.....based on not-self (I-am).
Ud 8.1.....There is that dimension, monks, where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor staying; neither passing away nor arising: unestablished, unevolving, without support [mental object]. This, just this, is the end of stress.
Ud 8.3.....There is, monks, an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated. If there were not that unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, there would not be the case that escape from the born — become — made — fabricated would be discerned. But precisely because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned.