Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

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Shaswata_Panja
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Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

Post by Shaswata_Panja »

Is there any evidence in the Pali Canon that Siddhartha had sex with seven dancer girls the night he left Kapilavastu?
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bodom
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Re: Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

Post by bodom »

In the grand scheme of things what does it matter if he did or didnt?

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

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Shaswata_Panja
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Re: Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

Post by Shaswata_Panja »

It matters to me as a student of history
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bodom
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Re: Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

Post by bodom »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:It matters to me as a student of history
There's little recorded history of Siddharthas life found in the canon before his awakening. Have a look at Nanamolis Life of the Buddha. If the account is not found in that anthology which I don't remember it being then I doubt it is true.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
daverupa
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Re: Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

Post by daverupa »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:Is there any evidence in the Pali Canon that Siddhartha had sex with seven dancer girls the night he left Kapilavastu?
Nope; there were some dancer folk performing a show in the 'palace' after the four sights occurred, allegedly, but then again the four sights story is probably altogether apocryphal.
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Re: Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

To be honest, the idea is ridiculous. To get to the final stage of a Bodhisatta mature for Enlightenment as a Fully Awakened Buddha required the perfection of morality for many aeons. He had been married for thirteen years before Rāhula was born.

What I read somewhere was that after providing entertainment for the royal couple far into the night, the female dancers and musicians fell asleep from exhaustion, and lay there snoring, and dribbling saliva, with their clothes in disarray. The Bodhisatta was disgusted by this sight.

The mind of one like the Bodhisatta who had practised chastity in many lives as a recluse, does not incline easily towards lust, let alone promiscuous fornication.
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Re: Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

Post by Dhammanando »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:Is there any evidence in the Pali Canon that Siddhartha had sex with seven dancer girls the night he left Kapilavastu?
I think what you may be referring to is the Vinaya’s narrative of the going forth of Yasa. In later poetical biographies of the Buddha the episode not infrequently gets misassigned to Prince Gotama.


Here’s the Vinaya account:
  • At that time in Benares there was a young man of family, the son of a (great) merchant, delicately reared, called Yasa.

    He had three mansions, one for the cold weather, one for the hot weather, one for the rains. Being ministered to by bands of female musicians for four months in the mansion for the rains, he did not come down from that mansion. Then while Yasa, the young man of family, was possessed of and provided with the five kinds of sense-pleasures, and was being ministered to, he fell asleep first and his suite fell asleep after him, and an oil lamp was burning all through the night.

    Then Yasa, the young man of family, having awoken first saw his own suite sleeping, one with a lute in the hollow of her arm, one with a tabor at her neck, one with a drum in the hollow of her arm, one with dishevelled hair, one with saliva dripping from her mouth, muttering in their sleep, like a cemetery before his very eyes. Seeing this, its peril grew plain, and his mind was set on disregarding it. Then Yasa, the young man of family, uttered a solemn utterance: “What distress indeed, what affliction indeed.”

    Then Yasa, the young man of family, having put on his golden sandals, approached the door of the dwelling. Non-human beings opened the door, thinking: “Let there be no obstacle for the going forth from home into homelessness of Yasa, the young man of family.” Then Yasa, the young man of family, approached the city-door. Non-human beings opened the door, thinking: “Let there be no obstacle for the going forth from home into homelessness of Yasa, the young man of family.” Then Yasa, the young man of family, approached the deer-park at Isipatana.

    At that time, the Lord having risen in the night towards dawn, was pacing up and down in the open air. The Lord saw Yasa, the young man of family, coming in the distance: seeing him, having come down from (the place) where he was pacing up and down, he sat down on an appointed seat. Then Yasa, the young man of family, when he was near, uttered this solemn utterance to the Lord: “What distress indeed, what affliction indeed.” Then the Lord spoke thus to Yasa, the young man of family: “This, Yasa, is not distress, this, Yasa, is not affliction. Come, sit down, Yasa, I will teach you dhamma.”

    Then Yasa, the young man of family, thinking: “It is said that this is not distress, that this is not affliction”, exultant and uplifted, having taken off his golden sandals, approached the Lord; having approached, having greeted the Lord, he sat down at a respectful distance. As he was sitting down at a respectful distance, the Lord talked a progressive talk to Yasa, the young man of family, that is to say, talk on giving, talk on moral habit, talk on heaven, he explained the peril, the vanity, the depravity of pleasures of the senses, the advantage in renouncing them.

    When the Lord knew that the mind of Yasa, the young man of family, was ready, malleable, devoid of hindrances, uplifted, pleased, then he explained to him the teaching on dhamma which the awakened ones have themselves discovered: ill, uprising, stopping, the Way. And just as a clean cloth without black specks will take a dye easily, even so (as he was sitting) on that very seat, dhamma-vision, dustless, stainless, arose to Yasa, the young man of family, that whatever is of a nature to uprise, all that is of a nature to stop.”
    (Vin. i. 14-16, tr. I.B. Horner)


And here’s the Mahāsaṅghika poet-monk Aśvaghoṣa describing the same thing happening to the Bodhisatta:
  • The king, the father, knew that his son’s mind was certain and could not be changed. He just had to do his utmost to hold him back. “Why the need for more words!”

    He increased the exquisite happiness of the five desires with the ladies even more. Night and day suffering was warded off, so that [the Crown Prince] would certainly not wish to go forth.

    The ministers in the land came to the Crown Prince and extensively spoke of the rules of propriety, urging him to comply with the king’s command.

    When the Crown Prince saw that the king, his father, was sad and wept, his tears flowing, he momentarily returned to his palace. Sitting upright, he pondered in silence.

    The ladies in the palace held him dear. They surrounded him and waited upon him. They observed him, gazing at his face. They gazed at him unblinking, just like a deer in the autumn forest, looking straight at the hunter.

    The Crown Prince’s whole complexion was like a mountain of real gold. The singing women all looked at him and, listening for his instructions, waited for the expression of his voice. They observed his thoughts with reverence, just as that deer in the forest.

    Gradually sunset arrived. The Crown Prince dwelled in the dark night, but his light was very bright, just as the sun shining on Mount Sumeru.

    While he was sitting on his seat with the seven precious things, perfumed with fine sandalwood, the multitude of ladies surrounded him and played gandharva music. It was just like the son of Vaiśravaṇa and the many fine sounds of celestial music.

    What the Crown Prince had on his mind was the highest happiness of renunciation. Even though [the ladies] brought many fine sounds, they still were not in his heart.

    Then the celestial sons of the pure abodes knew that the Crown Prince’s time had come, and that he would surely go forth. They suddenly transformed and descended. Disdainful of the multitude of singing women, they caused them all to fall asleep.

    The bearing [of the women] was uncontrolled. [With bodies] bent and lax, they showed their ugly appearance. They were numb, their faces alternately turned downward or upward. Their musical instruments were scattered in disarray. Some leaned sideways or had fallen over, and others looked as if they had been dropped into an abyss.

    Their necklaces were like dragging chains, and their garments were swathed around their bodies. Some were lying down on the floor, clasping the zither, like someone who is experiencing suffering. Their yellow and green garments were spread out, just like broken karṇīkāra flowers.

    With loose limbs they leaned against the walls, eyes closed, their shape like a hanging horn-bow. Some held on to a window with their hands and looked like strangled corpses. They groaned incessantly and gasped deeply. They were repugnant, sniveling and salivating.

    With disheveled hair they showed their ugly appearance. They looked like mad people. Flower garlands were hanging across their faces. Some were lying face down on the floor, and some were trembling all over, just like a lone shivering bird.

    Their bodies bent, they leaned on each other like pillows, hands and feet entwined. Some knit their brows and frowned, and some closed their eyes and opened their mouths. All kinds of bodies were dispersed, scattered about like corpses after an untimely death.

    The Crown Prince then sat up and observed the ladies. They had all been utterly majestic before, talking and laughing, their thoughts ingratiating and clever. They had been bewitching and ingenious in seduction, but now they all were repugnant.

    “If the nature of woman is such, how can one hold them dear? When bathing and making use of ornaments, they deceive the minds of men. I have understood now! I will certainly go forth, without any doubt!”
    (Buddhacarita fasc. I. ch. v, 48-64 tr. Charles Willemen)
Rūpehi bhikkhave arūpā santatarā.
Arūpehi nirodho santataro ti.


“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realms.
Cessation is more peaceful than the formless realms.”
(Santatarasutta, Iti 73)
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Pondera
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Re: Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

Post by Pondera »

According to Richard Gere, once the Bodhisattva was in union with his wife on the top of a roof. They rolled off the roof without noticing and landed I don't know how many feet in a bush of lotuses plants - unscathed and still in union. That's as spicy as it gets, I think. No seven maiden orgies. He heard them snoring and breathing like horses and decided to get the hell out of there. :shrug: doesn't mean he slept with all of them; at once.
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Re: Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

Post by pilgrim »

Pondera wrote:According to Richard Gere, once the Bodhisattva was in union with his wife on the top of a roof. They rolled off the roof without noticing and landed I don't know how many feet in a bush of lotuses plants - unscathed and still in union.
Don't know where Richard Gere gets his stories from, but that scenario would be unlikely, given that lotuses do not grow in bushes but have their leaves sticking out of water and rooted in mud.. :tongue:
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Pondera
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Re: Need References: Did Siddhartha have an orgy the night he left Kapilavastu?

Post by Pondera »

pilgrim wrote:
Pondera wrote:According to Richard Gere, once the Bodhisattva was in union with his wife on the top of a roof. They rolled off the roof without noticing and landed I don't know how many feet in a bush of lotuses plants - unscathed and still in union.
Don't know where Richard Gere gets his stories from, but that scenario would be unlikely, given that lotuses do not grow in bushes but have their leaves sticking out of water and rooted in mud.. :tongue:
Well it was a haystack then, alright? And I'll have you know that Richard Gere is a big time bodhisattva according to the Tibetans. :tongue:
Like the three marks of conditioned existence, this world in itself is filthy, hostile, and crowded
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