In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?

In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

not applicable, there is no rebirth, it is annihilation for all
2
2%
no more becoming, non-existence as we know it but not annihilation since there is no self
44
36%
existence in a buddha-field / realm
4
3%
pantheism
7
6%
citta continues in paranibbana
12
10%
a subtle existence that is ineffable, inexpressible
23
19%
don't know or agnostic about it, set-aside for now
31
25%
 
Total votes: 123

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tiltbillings
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by tiltbillings » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:58 pm

SarathW wrote:Nibban is not the end of greed, hatred and delusion..
In the S.N. IV 251 and IV 321 we find:
    • "That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is nibbana."
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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samseva
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by samseva » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:32 pm

If you suddenly find yourself being born as a deva, the fact that the Buddha was telling the truth about deities gives more credibility that Nibbāna is a possibility. I think that is what SarathW meant.

Although, I don't know if that would be how someone would think if he or she were reborn as a deva.

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by acinteyyo » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:32 pm

SarathW wrote:Nibban is not the end of greed, hatred and delusion.
There is a Sutta to support this which I can't locate it.
Nibbana is the remainder less cessation of perception and feeling.
You must be mistaken. I'm almost certain you misunderstood something.
SarathW wrote:Why cant we think about deity or other realms?
Buddhism teaches about them.
You can think about it but I doubt that you know the point of view of beings of other realms.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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cobwith
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cobwith » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:05 pm

In Buddha's view, understanding, Parinibbana is:
The arahant does not generate anymore, any volitional formations (abhisaṅkharo), of any sort.
SN 12.51
(Above Saṅkhāra)
Last edited by cobwith on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Sā me dhammamadesesi,
khandhāyatanadhātuyo
Thig 5.8

SarathW
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by SarathW » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:34 pm

samseva wrote:If you suddenly find yourself being born as a deva, the fact that the Buddha was telling the truth about deities gives more credibility that Nibbāna is a possibility. I think that is what SarathW meant.

Although, I don't know if that would be how someone would think if he or she were reborn as a deva.
At least we can get to the state of Dva by higher Jhanas.
If you attain higher Jhana, it will be much easier to understand Nibbana.
You are one step closer.
:meditate:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by SarathW » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:40 pm

cobwith wrote:In Buddha's view, understanding, Parinibbana is:
The arahant does not generate anymore, any volitional formations (abhisaṅkharo), of any sort.
SN 12.51
(Above Saṅkhāra :) - second link of paticcasamupada :)).
Good point Cobwith.
This is basically the right knowledge and right release.

Interesting to note parinibbāyati translated as Nibbāna.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cobwith » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:46 pm

SarathW wrote: Interesting to note parinibbāyati translated as Nibbāna.
:)
Bhikkhu Bodhi usually uses "final Nibbāna" in his other translations. He just forgot the "final" here.

For Nibbāna is this:
‘This is the peaceful, this is the sublime, that is, the stilling of all formations, the relinquishing of all attachments, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna.’
‘etaṃ santaṃ etaṃ paṇītaṃ yadidaṃ sabba­saṅ­khā­ra­sama­tho sabbū­padhipa­ṭi­nissaggo taṇhākkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānan’ti.
MN 64 - Mahā­māluk­yasutta

Note

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The consciousness of living beings hindered by ignorance & fettered by craving (AN 3.76)
Sā me dhammamadesesi,
khandhāyatanadhātuyo
Thig 5.8

SarathW
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by SarathW » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:25 am

"Knowledge can be communicated but not wisdom"

Hermann Hesse
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:15 pm

So the second option is just death, right?
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:02 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:So the second option is just death, right?
Both the first and second choices are death with no more continuance of any of the senses, not even consciousness; no remainder, no being that can be called upon.

The difference between the first and second is that the first one is the materialist-atheist position and the second one is what most believe to be the classical Buddhist position. In the second position, if there is no awakening / nibbana / parinibbana at death, then there is still becoming in the form of rebirth.

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Zom
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Zom » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:35 pm

So the second option is just death, right?
Death is the painful break-up of the body. Non-existence is "the absense of existence"

So nibbana is not death while it is non-existence.

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tiltbillings
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:48 pm

Zom wrote:
So nibbana is not death while it is non-existence.
Probably not.
    • Since a tathagata, even when actually present, is incomprehensible, it is inept to say of him – of the Uttermost Person, the Supernal Person, the Attainer of the Supernal – that after death the tathagata is, or is not, or both is and is not, or neither is nor is not SN III 118-9
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Ron-The-Elder » Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:10 pm

Voting regarding this topic is meaningless. It is like voting on the ultimate meaning of truth, or the nature of dark energy by those who have never experienced it. The one's who can vote in this regard are The Buddhas. Best to reserve this thread just for them and then report the results. :tongue:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS » Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:52 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Voting regarding this topic is meaningless. It is like voting on the ultimate meaning of truth, or the nature of dark energy by those who have never experienced it. The one's who can vote in this regard are The Buddhas. Best to reserve this thread just for them and then report the results. :tongue:
Yes, that would be ideal, but since they are "in" parinibbana, we can't ask them. :tongue:

All we can do is just do this survey to see what Buddhists believe. The victor in this poll doesn't determine the absolute truth and was not meant to do that. Argumentum ad populum and history shows us that millions and even billions can follow obvious falsehoods.

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Dinsdale » Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:11 pm

David N. Snyder wrote: The victor in this poll doesn't determine the absolute truth and was not meant to do that.
That's a relief. ;)
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