In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?

In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

not applicable, there is no rebirth, it is annihilation for all
2
1%
no more becoming, non-existence as we know it but not annihilation since there is no self
52
38%
existence in a buddha-field / realm
5
4%
pantheism
8
6%
citta continues in paranibbana
12
9%
a subtle existence that is ineffable, inexpressible
26
19%
don't know or agnostic about it, set-aside for now
31
23%
 
Total votes: 136

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DNS
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:33 pm

Topic bumped back to top of active topics at the request of a member, to see if more can vote in this poll to see where members are at on this topic.

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:36 pm

If you don't count the first and last options in the poll then we currently have a sort of 2 way tie:

37% for non-existence as we know it, but not annihilation since there is no self to begin with
37% for some kind of subtle existence

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:53 pm

DNS wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:36 pm
If you don't count the first and last options in the poll then we currently have a sort of 2 way tie:

37% for non-existence as we know it, but not annihilation since there is no self to begin with
37% for some kind of subtle existence
Hello,

It would be somewhat logical to make a summary like that [adding up small "similar" ones to rank up against a "unique" one], only when the number of option avaliable to choose [for each and every individual] is limited to one.

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Metta,
🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐
  • "the one thing all the mistaken views have in common is the assump­tion that the self exists" ~ DN1
  • "It is an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" ~ MN22
  • The No-self doctrine is found only in the teaching of the Buddha.
  • No-self (anatta) means that there is no permanent, unchanging entity in anything animate or inanimate. ~ SN22.59

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Will
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Will » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:43 am

DNS wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:33 pm
Topic bumped back to top of active topics at the request of a member, to see if more can vote in this poll to see where members are at on this topic.
Another possible (or maybe technically not) modification is to reduce the votes to two choices only.
Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. -- AN 10.1

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:18 am

In the great nibbana thread, tharpa wrote:
tharpa wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:38 am
Santi253 wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:02 pm
David N. Snyder wrote: True, but Mun is more of an outlier, not a typical, mainstream theravada view.
This is something I don't know a whole lot about. Does the typical Theravada Buddhist, in traditionally Theravadin countries, believe that the Buddha remains present in the world?
Absolutely not. Such a view is sometimes found in fringe Mahayana sects though, such as the Nichiren.

But to give the Buddha's teachings on this: The Buddha was asked thousands of questions during his 45 years of teaching. There were a very, very few he declined to answer. One of the ones he declined to answer was, "Does an arahant exist after death, or not exist after death?"

Please note that a Buddha is one of the three kinds of arahants.
And yet we find eternalist type views in forest traditions:
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:43 pm
It'd be a good idea to save this file Ajahn Martin , in case of probable future deletion, similar to the fate of "some links" mentioned in the pdf.

Ajahn Martin --->
Consciousness or vinnana is one of the khandhas and of course is not eternal. The citta is eternal. Just remember what the Lord Buddha said, the Thatagata after dead neither is nor is not. The citta is not individualistic, not personal. How could the Lord Buddha talk to Acharn Mun presenting Dhamma to him in the form of the Lord Buddha, if there is nothing that is eternal and everything dies away? We grasp the term citta wrongly, we think every beeing has a citta, no that is not right, every being is part of that one citta, that is eternal. This would be the correct view.
And see also:
Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:40 pm
Mkoll wrote:In your experience, is this concept of a primordial citta common in the Ajahn Mun and Chah forest traditions?
I think "common" would be a bit of an understatement. The primordial citta conception and similar strains of thinly disguised soul theory and semi-eternalism are ubiquitous in these traditions.
Here at DW in our very small sample size, we see about an even split in views, but would the poll results be much more skewed toward eternalism among Buddhists in Buddhist countries; i.e. more of the born-Buddhist adherents as opposed to mostly convert Buddhists on english-language Buddhist forums?

Note: not that the majority decides what is true and correct of course as that would be argumentum ad populum. Just curious.

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:55 am

being forever yourself, is extreme

being destroyed, is extreme

truly it's both & neither

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DooDoot » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:13 am

Is there here-&-now Parinibbana? :shrug:
In the same way, a cruel individual extinguishes it by not being cruel. An individual who kills extinguishes it by not killing. …

Evameva kho, cunda, vihiṃsakassa purisapuggalassa avihiṃsā hoti parinibbānāya, pāṇātipātissa purisapuggalassa pāṇātipātā veramaṇī hoti parinibbānāya

https://suttacentral.net/mn8/en/sujato
‘The Blessed One is awakened, tamed, serene, crossed over, and extinguished. And he teaches Dhamma for awakening, taming, serenity, crossing over, and extinguishment.’

buddho so bhagavā bodhāya dhammaṃ deseti, danto so bhagavā damathāya dhammaṃ deseti, santo so bhagavā samathāya dhammaṃ deseti, tiṇṇo so bhagavā taraṇāya dhammaṃ deseti, parinibbuto so bhagavā parinibbānāya dhammaṃ desetī

https://suttacentral.net/mn35/en/sujato
Not grasping, they’re not anxious. Not being anxious, they personally become extinguished.

Anupādiyaṃ na paritassati, aparitassaṃ paccattaññeva parinibbāyati:

https://suttacentral.net/mn37/en/sujato

Venerable sir, what is the cause and reason why some beings here do not attain Nibbāna in this very life? And what is the cause and reason why some beings here attain Nibbāna in this very life?

ko nu kho, bhante, hetu, ko paccayo yena m’idhekacce sattā diṭṭheva dhamme no parinibbāyanti?

There are, lord of the devas, forms cognizable by the eye that are desirable, lovely, agreeable, pleasing, sensually enticing, tantalizing. If a bhikkhu seeks delight in them, welcomes them, and remains holding to them, his consciousness becomes dependent upon them and clings to them. A bhikkhu with clinging does not attain Nibbāna.

Ko pana, bhante, hetu, ko paccayo yena m’idhekacce sattā diṭṭheva dhamme parinibbāyantī

https://suttacentral.net/sn35.118/en/bodhi
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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cappuccino
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:21 am

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:13 am
Is there here-&-now Parinibbana?
afterlife

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:41 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:13 am
Is there here-&-now Parinibbana?
This is a very, very, good question. I ask it myself often and I've never yet got an answer that didn't seem improvised.
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by sentinel » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:42 pm

If life is suffering then nibbana is the stopping of suffering . Parinibbana would be Full Stop .
However , put it another way . The disappearance of darkness (ie the ending of suffering) doesn't mean there is No Lights !
:buddha1:

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