In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?

In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

not applicable, there is no rebirth, it is annihilation for all
4
2%
no more becoming, non-existence as we know it but not annihilation since there is no self
71
38%
existence in a buddha-field / realm
9
5%
pantheism
9
5%
citta continues in paranibbana
21
11%
a subtle existence that is ineffable, inexpressible
31
17%
don't know or agnostic about it, set-aside for now
42
22%
 
Total votes: 187

Santi253
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Santi253 »

cappuccino wrote:Death is not the end, it's the beginning.
Yeah, but in what form? It's an unanswerable question, unless one's experienced it.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

Santi253 wrote:
cappuccino wrote:Death is not the end, it's the beginning.
Yeah, but in what form? It's an unanswerable question, unless one's experienced it.
Spirit form, a subtle body.
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Santi253 »

cappuccino wrote:
Santi253 wrote:
cappuccino wrote:Death is not the end, it's the beginning.
Yeah, but in what form? It's an unanswerable question, unless one's experienced it.
Spirit form, a subtle body.
Can the enlightened being speak to us or visit us from the Nirvana realm?
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

Santi253 wrote:Can the enlightened being speak to us or visit us from the Nirvana realm?
:shrug:
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Santi253 »

cappuccino wrote:
Santi253 wrote:Can the enlightened being speak to us or visit us from the Nirvana realm?
:shrug:
This is a main difference between Mahayana and Theravada, since Mahayana teaches that the enlightened being remains active in the world after death, out of compassion for all beings.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS »

Interesting poll results so far.

About 37% chose some kind of non-existence (as we know it) but not necessarily nihilism since there is no self to begin with.
About 26% for setting it aside for now (wait and see approach).
And then about 37% for some kind of subtle existence.

Most of the members here are Western-born convert Buddhists. If we asked only Western born monks, I imagine the 'non-existence' as we know it option would be even a much higher percentage. Whereas, Asian Buddhists appear to be mostly aligned with one of the subtle existence options as evidenced by this post from Bhante Dhammanando:
Dhammanando wrote: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:40 pm
Mkoll wrote:In your experience, is this concept of a primordial citta common in the Ajahn Mun and Chah forest traditions?
I think "common" would be a bit of an understatement. The primordial citta conception and similar strains of thinly disguised soul theory and semi-eternalism are ubiquitous in these traditions.
Mkoll wrote:Can you say say who is well-known from those traditions who espouse it and those who don't?
Among the Thai ajahns I don’t know of any who don’t teach this.

As for the non-Thai (i.e. mostly western) ajahns, with these you can predict it with a fairly high degree of accuracy from the monk’s biography. The non-eternalists for the most part comprise those who had some background in relatively orthodox strains of Theravada Buddhism before they got mixed up with the forest tradition. Examples would include Ajahns Khemadhammo, Tiradhammo and Sujāto, who all began as Mahasi practitioners; Ajahn Viradhammo, who began as a Ñāṇavīra enthusiast after Sāmaṇera Bodhesako introduced him to the man’s teachings; and Ajahn Brahmavamso, who began with the Samatha Trust, a British group that combines samatha meditation with Abhidhamma study. All of these appear to have avoided the semi-eternalist error that’s endemic to the Thai forest tradition. But those monks who had no previous background in Buddhism before they stumbled across the Thai forest tradition have for the most part not avoided it.
There appears to be an East-West divide; not saying which one is correct, just noting the divide which could be cultural or could be something else.
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by User1249x »

interesting poll results indeed
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

studying and practicing ...

to be known by the wise, each for himself.
http://www.buddhanet.net/pali_chant.htm

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:anjali:
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by chownah »

I think there should be another option for the poll:
Understanding parinabana is impossible.

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by one_awakening »

Why does the second choice refer to no self?.....considering the Buddha never said there is no self.
“You only lose what you cling to”
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS »

Topic bumped back to top of active topics at the request of a member, to see if more can vote in this poll to see where members are at on this topic.
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS »

If you don't count the first and last options in the poll then we currently have a sort of 2 way tie:

37% for non-existence as we know it, but not annihilation since there is no self to begin with
37% for some kind of subtle existence
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

DNS wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:36 pm If you don't count the first and last options in the poll then we currently have a sort of 2 way tie:

37% for non-existence as we know it, but not annihilation since there is no self to begin with
37% for some kind of subtle existence
Hello,

It would be somewhat logical to make a summary like that [adding up small "similar" ones to rank up against a "unique" one], only when the number of option avaliable to choose [for each and every individual] is limited to one.

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Metta,
𝓑𝓾𝓭𝓭𝓱𝓪 𝓗𝓪𝓭 𝓤𝓷𝓮𝓺𝓾𝓲𝓿𝓸𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓓𝓮𝓬𝓵𝓪𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽
  • Iᴅᴇᴀ ᴏꜰ Sᴏᴜʟ ɪs Oᴜᴛᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴏꜰ ᴀɴ Uᴛᴛᴇʀʟʏ Fᴏᴏʟɪsʜ Vɪᴇᴡ
    V. Nanananda

𝓐𝓷𝓪𝓽𝓽ā 𝓜𝓮𝓪𝓷𝓼 𝓣𝓱𝓪𝓽 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓘𝓼
  • Nᴏ sᴜᴄʜ ᴛʜɪɴɢ ᴀs ᴀ Sᴇʟғ, Sᴏᴜʟ, Eɢᴏ, Sᴘɪʀɪᴛ, ᴏʀ Āᴛᴍᴀɴ
    V. Buddhādasa
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

DNS wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:33 pm Topic bumped back to top of active topics at the request of a member, to see if more can vote in this poll to see where members are at on this topic.
Another possible (or maybe technically not) modification is to reduce the votes to two choices only.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS »

In the great nibbana thread, tharpa wrote:
tharpa wrote: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:38 am
Santi253 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:02 pm
David N. Snyder wrote: True, but Mun is more of an outlier, not a typical, mainstream theravada view.
This is something I don't know a whole lot about. Does the typical Theravada Buddhist, in traditionally Theravadin countries, believe that the Buddha remains present in the world?
Absolutely not. Such a view is sometimes found in fringe Mahayana sects though, such as the Nichiren.

But to give the Buddha's teachings on this: The Buddha was asked thousands of questions during his 45 years of teaching. There were a very, very few he declined to answer. One of the ones he declined to answer was, "Does an arahant exist after death, or not exist after death?"

Please note that a Buddha is one of the three kinds of arahants.
And yet we find eternalist type views in forest traditions:
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:43 pm It'd be a good idea to save this file Ajahn Martin , in case of probable future deletion, similar to the fate of "some links" mentioned in the pdf.

Ajahn Martin --->
Consciousness or vinnana is one of the khandhas and of course is not eternal. The citta is eternal. Just remember what the Lord Buddha said, the Thatagata after dead neither is nor is not. The citta is not individualistic, not personal. How could the Lord Buddha talk to Acharn Mun presenting Dhamma to him in the form of the Lord Buddha, if there is nothing that is eternal and everything dies away? We grasp the term citta wrongly, we think every beeing has a citta, no that is not right, every being is part of that one citta, that is eternal. This would be the correct view.
And see also:
Dhammanando wrote: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:40 pm
Mkoll wrote:In your experience, is this concept of a primordial citta common in the Ajahn Mun and Chah forest traditions?
I think "common" would be a bit of an understatement. The primordial citta conception and similar strains of thinly disguised soul theory and semi-eternalism are ubiquitous in these traditions.
Here at DW in our very small sample size, we see about an even split in views, but would the poll results be much more skewed toward eternalism among Buddhists in Buddhist countries; i.e. more of the born-Buddhist adherents as opposed to mostly convert Buddhists on english-language Buddhist forums?

Note: not that the majority decides what is true and correct of course as that would be argumentum ad populum. Just curious.
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