In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?

In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

not applicable, there is no rebirth, it is annihilation for all
3
2%
no more becoming, non-existence as we know it but not annihilation since there is no self
60
41%
existence in a buddha-field / realm
6
4%
pantheism
7
5%
citta continues in paranibbana
14
9%
a subtle existence that is ineffable, inexpressible
26
18%
don't know or agnostic about it, set-aside for now
32
22%
 
Total votes: 148

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DNS
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS »

Topic bumped back to top of active topics at the request of a member, to see if more can vote in this poll to see where members are at on this topic.
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS »

If you don't count the first and last options in the poll then we currently have a sort of 2 way tie:

37% for non-existence as we know it, but not annihilation since there is no self to begin with
37% for some kind of subtle existence
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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta »

DNS wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:36 pm If you don't count the first and last options in the poll then we currently have a sort of 2 way tie:

37% for non-existence as we know it, but not annihilation since there is no self to begin with
37% for some kind of subtle existence
Hello,

It would be somewhat logical to make a summary like that [adding up small "similar" ones to rank up against a "unique" one], only when the number of option avaliable to choose [for each and every individual] is limited to one.

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Metta,
.


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  • "an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" :D ~ MN22
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

DNS wrote: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:33 pm Topic bumped back to top of active topics at the request of a member, to see if more can vote in this poll to see where members are at on this topic.
Another possible (or maybe technically not) modification is to reduce the votes to two choices only.
Good is virtue until life’s end, good is faith that is steadfast, good is the acquisition of wisdom, and good is the avoidance of evil. Dhammapada
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS »

In the great nibbana thread, tharpa wrote:
tharpa wrote: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:38 am
Santi253 wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:02 pm
David N. Snyder wrote: True, but Mun is more of an outlier, not a typical, mainstream theravada view.
This is something I don't know a whole lot about. Does the typical Theravada Buddhist, in traditionally Theravadin countries, believe that the Buddha remains present in the world?
Absolutely not. Such a view is sometimes found in fringe Mahayana sects though, such as the Nichiren.

But to give the Buddha's teachings on this: The Buddha was asked thousands of questions during his 45 years of teaching. There were a very, very few he declined to answer. One of the ones he declined to answer was, "Does an arahant exist after death, or not exist after death?"

Please note that a Buddha is one of the three kinds of arahants.
And yet we find eternalist type views in forest traditions:
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote: Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:43 pm It'd be a good idea to save this file Ajahn Martin , in case of probable future deletion, similar to the fate of "some links" mentioned in the pdf.

Ajahn Martin --->
Consciousness or vinnana is one of the khandhas and of course is not eternal. The citta is eternal. Just remember what the Lord Buddha said, the Thatagata after dead neither is nor is not. The citta is not individualistic, not personal. How could the Lord Buddha talk to Acharn Mun presenting Dhamma to him in the form of the Lord Buddha, if there is nothing that is eternal and everything dies away? We grasp the term citta wrongly, we think every beeing has a citta, no that is not right, every being is part of that one citta, that is eternal. This would be the correct view.
And see also:
Dhammanando wrote: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:40 pm
Mkoll wrote:In your experience, is this concept of a primordial citta common in the Ajahn Mun and Chah forest traditions?
I think "common" would be a bit of an understatement. The primordial citta conception and similar strains of thinly disguised soul theory and semi-eternalism are ubiquitous in these traditions.
Here at DW in our very small sample size, we see about an even split in views, but would the poll results be much more skewed toward eternalism among Buddhists in Buddhist countries; i.e. more of the born-Buddhist adherents as opposed to mostly convert Buddhists on english-language Buddhist forums?

Note: not that the majority decides what is true and correct of course as that would be argumentum ad populum. Just curious.
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

being forever yourself, is extreme

being destroyed, is extreme

truly it's both & neither
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DooDoot »

Is there here-&-now Parinibbana? :shrug:
In the same way, a cruel individual extinguishes it by not being cruel. An individual who kills extinguishes it by not killing. …

Evameva kho, cunda, vihiṃsakassa purisapuggalassa avihiṃsā hoti parinibbānāya, pāṇātipātissa purisapuggalassa pāṇātipātā veramaṇī hoti parinibbānāya

https://suttacentral.net/mn8/en/sujato
‘The Blessed One is awakened, tamed, serene, crossed over, and extinguished. And he teaches Dhamma for awakening, taming, serenity, crossing over, and extinguishment.’

buddho so bhagavā bodhāya dhammaṃ deseti, danto so bhagavā damathāya dhammaṃ deseti, santo so bhagavā samathāya dhammaṃ deseti, tiṇṇo so bhagavā taraṇāya dhammaṃ deseti, parinibbuto so bhagavā parinibbānāya dhammaṃ desetī

https://suttacentral.net/mn35/en/sujato
Not grasping, they’re not anxious. Not being anxious, they personally become extinguished.

Anupādiyaṃ na paritassati, aparitassaṃ paccattaññeva parinibbāyati:

https://suttacentral.net/mn37/en/sujato

Venerable sir, what is the cause and reason why some beings here do not attain Nibbāna in this very life? And what is the cause and reason why some beings here attain Nibbāna in this very life?

ko nu kho, bhante, hetu, ko paccayo yena m’idhekacce sattā diṭṭheva dhamme no parinibbāyanti?

There are, lord of the devas, forms cognizable by the eye that are desirable, lovely, agreeable, pleasing, sensually enticing, tantalizing. If a bhikkhu seeks delight in them, welcomes them, and remains holding to them, his consciousness becomes dependent upon them and clings to them. A bhikkhu with clinging does not attain Nibbāna.

Ko pana, bhante, hetu, ko paccayo yena m’idhekacce sattā diṭṭheva dhamme parinibbāyantī

https://suttacentral.net/sn35.118/en/bodhi
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by cappuccino »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:13 am Is there here-&-now Parinibbana?
afterlife
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Coëmgenu »

DooDoot wrote: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:13 amIs there here-&-now Parinibbana?
This is a very, very, good question. I ask it myself often and I've never yet got an answer that didn't seem improvised.
Bodhicitta is alien
to all things, meaning the aggregates,
the elements, the fields,
the grasper, and what is grasped.

The phenomena are selfless
and the mind is likewise.
At their root, they are fundamentally unarisen,
like the great void of self-nature.

As the Arhats, the Buddhas, the Lords,
the Bodhisatvas, rouse bodhicitta
and approach the bodhimaṇḍa,
may I too give rise to bodhicitta.

(Vairocanasūtra T848.46b23)
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by sentinel »

If life is suffering then nibbana is the stopping of suffering . Parinibbana would be Full Stop .
However , put it another way . The disappearance of darkness (ie the ending of suffering) doesn't mean there is No Lights !
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by Assaji »

Hi DNS,
DNS wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:35 am To accompany the great Nibbana thread, to see where DW posters are on this topic. You can pick up to 3 choices, if you like, since some are similar.
This poll doesn't make much sense, since the word "Parinibbana' has the same meaning as the word "Nibbana":

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_ ... bbaana.htm

And the word "Nibbana" has several meanings:

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_r/nibbaana.htm
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by DNS »

Assaji wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:01 pm Hi DNS,
DNS wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:35 am To accompany the great Nibbana thread, to see where DW posters are on this topic. You can pick up to 3 choices, if you like, since some are similar.
This poll doesn't make much sense, since the word "Parinibbana' has the same meaning as the word "Nibbana":

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_ ... bbaana.htm

And the word "Nibbana" has several meanings:

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_r/nibbaana.htm
It's often differentiated as:
Nibbana can be obtained while one is alive, with effluents.
Parinibbana is Nibbana without effluents.
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by bodom »

Assaji wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:01 pm Hi DNS,
DNS wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:35 am To accompany the great Nibbana thread, to see where DW posters are on this topic. You can pick up to 3 choices, if you like, since some are similar.
This poll doesn't make much sense, since the word "Parinibbana' has the same meaning as the word "Nibbana":

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_ ... bbaana.htm

And the word "Nibbana" has several meanings:

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_r/nibbaana.htm
Final Nibbana. No more becoming in the rounds of samsara is what is meant here.

Some are born in the human womb,
evildoers in hell,
those on the good course go
to heaven,
while those without effluent:
totally unbound.

— Dhp 126
:namaste:
With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasaka Kee Nanayon
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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by mikenz66 »

DNS wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:13 pm
Assaji wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:01 pm Hi DNS,
DNS wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:35 am To accompany the great Nibbana thread, to see where DW posters are on this topic. You can pick up to 3 choices, if you like, since some are similar.
This poll doesn't make much sense, since the word "Parinibbana' has the same meaning as the word "Nibbana":

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_ ... bbaana.htm

And the word "Nibbana" has several meanings:

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_r/nibbaana.htm
It's often differentiated as:
Nibbana can be obtained while one is alive, with effluents.
Parinibbana is Nibbana without effluents.
According to Bhikkhu Bodhi's analysis this is a misreading.
https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p209545

Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote:
NIBBĀNA, PARINIBBĀNA

As is well known, nibbāna literally means the extinction of a fire. In popular works on Buddhism, nibbāna plain and simple is often taken to signify Nibbāna as experienced in life, parinibbāna Nibbāna attained at death. This is a misinterpretation.
...
The suttas distinguish between two elements of Nibbāna: the Nibbāna element with residue (sa-upādisesa-nibbānadhātu) and the Nibbāna element without residue (anupādisesanibbānadhātu )—the residue (upādisesa) being the compound of the five aggregates produced by prior craving and kamma (It 38–39). The former is the extinction of lust, hatred, and delusion attained by the arahant while alive; the latter is the remainderless cessation of all conditioned existence that occurs with the arahant’s death.
...
There is quite a lot more detail in Bhikkhu Bodhi's note...

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Re: In your view, understanding, Parinibbana is:

Post by SteRo »

Parinibbana is a mere concept. Couldn't find this tick option.
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