Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
MrLearner
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by MrLearner » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:00 pm

dhammacoustic wrote:
MrLearner wrote:@dhammacoustic: Yes I completely agree with what you are saying,especially dawkin's philosophical knowledge but I think Dawkins is a guy who obviously has not been fortunate enough to meet Dhamma, his attitude also would make sure he will never accept it in this lifetime, but if you look at what he is saying, ignoring his lack of philosophical knowledge makes some valid points. I saw in a different interview in youtube, where he was interviewed in Sri Lanka, and then he was asked about buddhism. There he says he sees it less as a religion and more a way of life. He said it was very interesting and beautiful but unfortunately he doesn't know much about it.
I kind of appreciate Dawkins' fight against dogma and intellectual ignorance, but since the debate seems to be about answering questions on ontological matters, I think the video is a waste of time (and bandwidth), due to the participants.

:anjali:
Yes I understand :)

Digity
Posts: 1407
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:13 am

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by Digity » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:18 pm

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I was just reading an article recently on "bullshit" and it targeted Deepak Chopra and the BS that he tends to spew.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/12 ... -says.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's also a site that mocks Chopra's wisdom:
http://wisdomofchopra.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think it's important to highlight this, because there's "bullshitters" out there in spiritual communities, even in Buddhist ones and a good student can discern between the BSers and the real thing.

Dinsdale
Posts: 6570
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by Dinsdale » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:22 pm

Digity wrote:Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I was just reading an article recently on "bullshit" and it targeted Deepak Chopra and the BS that he tends to spew.
It still surprises me that a lot of people seem to be taken in by it. :shrug:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Digity
Posts: 1407
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:13 am

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by Digity » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:46 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
Digity wrote:Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I was just reading an article recently on "bullshit" and it targeted Deepak Chopra and the BS that he tends to spew.
It still surprises me that a lot of people seem to be taken in by it. :shrug:
It doesn't surprise me. Like the article says, it's just a matter of a person's intelligence. If you're intelligent and discerning then you're less likely to be taken in by this sort of crap. If you're not very intelligent or discerning then you're more likely to get fooled by it.

There are so many people out there that do unintelligent things on a daily basis. They get scammed by others, etc. A lot of this comes down to a lack of discernment on those who get targeted...they are too trusting of authority and don't challenge and question them. In spiritual communities, it's easy to fall prey to this, because the teacher is a guru/authority and we're suppose to look up to them, but they could be full a BS for all we know. That's why I tend to be weary of spiritual communities and really like to examine the teachers closely, because these communities can attract those types of people that are seeking an audience and want adulation, etc. but who have little substance to them. Chopra is the perfect example of that.

User avatar
m0rl0ck
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by m0rl0ck » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:35 pm

Its not that atoms have consciousness, they are consciousness, just as is everything else.
"It's not the case, Kotthita my friend, that name-&-form are self-made, that it is other-made, that it is both self-made & other-made, or that -- without self-making or other-making -- it arises spontaneously. However, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form."
http://buddhasutra.com/files/nalakalapiyo_sutta.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. ~Huang Po
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

User avatar
Pasada
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:20 am

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by Pasada » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:58 am

Ben wrote:from memory Chopra's ideas borrow from Hinduism and Buddhism but are more accurately described as New Age. Im no fan of Chopra' and since Dawkins escalating obsession with tearing down religion, nor a fan of him either.
I agree. In fact, I would argue that Chopra's New Age monism is an example of modern day eternalism, while Dawkins' materialist views are an example of modern day annihilationism. Followers of the Middle Way would be wise to steer clear of both!

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by Ben » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:14 am

Pasada wrote:
Ben wrote:from memory Chopra's ideas borrow from Hinduism and Buddhism but are more accurately described as New Age. Im no fan of Chopra' and since Dawkins escalating obsession with tearing down religion, nor a fan of him either.
I agree. In fact, I would argue that Chopra's New Age monism is an example of modern day eternalism, while Dawkins' materialist views are an example of modern day annihilationism. Followers of the Middle Way would be wise to steer clear of both!
Sadhu!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

Dinsdale
Posts: 6570
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:43 am

m0rl0ck wrote:Its not that atoms have consciousness, they are consciousness, just as is everything else.
That sounds more like Hinduism.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Dinsdale
Posts: 6570
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:06 pm

Pasada wrote:I agree. In fact, I would argue that Chopra's New Age monism is an example of modern day eternalism, while Dawkins' materialist views are an example of modern day annihilationism. Followers of the Middle Way would be wise to steer clear of both!
I see it more as an argument between a scientist and a pseudo-scientist. Dawkins is basing his comments on scientific observation while Chopra is just making stuff up.

So how about when we practice mindfulness, do we base our investigation on what we observe, or do we just make stuff up? ;)
Buddha save me from new-agers!

User avatar
m0rl0ck
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by m0rl0ck » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:43 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
m0rl0ck wrote:Its not that atoms have consciousness, they are consciousness, just as is everything else.
That sounds more like Hinduism.
Read the sutta quote, read the sutta.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

User avatar
Nicolas
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:59 pm
Location: Somerville, MA, USA

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by Nicolas » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:49 pm

m0rl0ck wrote:Its not that atoms have consciousness, they are consciousness, just as is everything else.
"It's not the case, Kotthita my friend, that name-&-form are self-made, that it is other-made, that it is both self-made & other-made, or that -- without self-making or other-making -- it arises spontaneously. However, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form."
http://buddhasutra.com/files/nalakalapiyo_sutta.htm
My understanding is: Name-&-form is not consciousness, else it would be called "consciousness". Name-&-form and consciousness arise in dependence on each other.

User avatar
m0rl0ck
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:51 am

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by m0rl0ck » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:57 pm

Nicolas wrote: My understanding is: Name-&-form is not consciousness, else it would be called "consciousness". Name-&-form and consciousness arise in dependence on each other.
So if you take away consciousness, what happens to the universe of name and form?
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

SarathW
Posts: 11777
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by SarathW » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:42 pm

m0rl0ck wrote:
Spiny Norman wrote:
m0rl0ck wrote:Its not that atoms have consciousness, they are consciousness, just as is everything else.
That sounds more like Hinduism.
Read the sutta quote, read the sutta.

Saying atoms have consciousness is no different to saying wood got fire.
Wood and fire & wood fire are three different things.
Rupa and Nama & Namarupa are three different thing as well.
What we should understand here is the dependent origination.
I am not sure whether Deepak Chopra teaches that.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Dinsdale
Posts: 6570
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:18 pm

Nicolas wrote:My understanding is: Name-&-form is not consciousness, else it would be called "consciousness". Name-&-form and consciousness arise in dependence on each other.
Yes, it's describing a mutual dependence. As the sutta explains "It is as if two sheaves of reeds were to stand leaning against one another."

This is describing dependent origination and is nothing like "cosmic consciousness" or Brahman or whatever.
Last edited by Dinsdale on Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Dinsdale
Posts: 6570
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Deepak chopra vs richard dawkins?

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:19 pm

SarathW wrote:I am not sure whether Deepak Chopra teaches that.
Chopra teaches "cosmic consciousness", it's new-age Hinduism really.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bundokji and 79 guests