Liberation is (means) , not having to clinging to rules and rituals.
Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
Last edited by SarathW on Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
Anagarika wrote:I think it can be helpful to think of the precepts as "training rules," in the sense "I undertake the training rule to abstain from...." If seen as training rules, adherence to these rules is not an accomplishment, or a measure of how law abiding one is vs. their neighbor, but training rules for one's own foundation of practice and development. If these precepts are seen as achievements or a measuring stick against one's peers, the unskillful attachment to the rules hinders the purpose of the training rule. It's there as a tool for one's own skillful implementation; any other use of it renders it something other than a training rule.
Zom wrote:Sure it can. Same as with any other precepts.So back to the original question - Is it possible that celibacy could be practiced in a way that was silabatta-paramassa?
As I understand "silabatta-paramassa" fetter -- it is the situation when rules & precepts have an ultimate meaning for you. In this case you don't really understand why you should follow these or that rules - but you just blindly follow them because "you have to do it", because they are rules.
Thank you both of you for explaining it in lay man's terms
This is heaven sent for me...Me being born and brought up in Hindu context, have heard the efficacy of unbroken celibacy a lot...that 12 years of unbroken celibacy will give one high IQ, intelligence, abiity to master any subject very fast, great jobs, money, status and what not...and of course liberation at the end of 12 years ..if one is to hear one Mahavakya
No further practice or meditation is necessary in the intervening 12 years..Many I know are trying this and suffice to say a lot are suffering from mental issues, disllusionment, depression
and of course being Hindus they only pay lip service to meditation , that is pure real meditation ..some involve themselves in Japa
If celibacy is making you a better person (i.e. a person spreading as less suffering consciously as possible) , then by all means do it...else just donot have sex with other people's partner..such simplicity and such effectiveness
I just want to know now whether Buddha advised the Holy Life or celibacy in youth in Dhammpada 155 -156..anybody can please answer this?
Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
Dhammapada 155
http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=155" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Most striking thing to me is the three stages of life.
We are still not too late!
http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/ve ... ?verse=155" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Most striking thing to me is the three stages of life.
We are still not too late!
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
- tattoogunman
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Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
Also look at it this way - if everyone was celibate, you would effectively also be ending the cycle of rebirth because there would be no more babies!
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Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
you can have sex and use lifelong contraceptives or condoms for that..no need for celibacy
- tattoogunman
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Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
Um, celibacy means NO sexy time. If you are having sex, you are not celibate.Shaswata_Panja wrote:you can have sex and use lifelong contraceptives or condoms for that..no need for celibacy
Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
tattoogunman wrote:Also look at it this way - if everyone was celibate, you would effectively also be ending the cycle of rebirth because there would be no more babies!
Shaswata_Panja wrote:you can have sex and use lifelong contraceptives or condoms for that..no need for celibacy
What Shaswatta_Panja obviously meant was that for "effectively ending the cycle of rebirth by making no more babies" one does not need to be celibate, but use of lifelong contraceptives or condoms most probalby could lead to the same result, namely having no more babies.tattoogunman wrote:Um, celibacy means NO sexy time. If you are having sex, you are not celibate.
However I highly doubt that it's possible to end rebirth by merely "making no more babies". This might sound effective in theory, but actually I don't think it'll turn out that way.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.
Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
Who is going to teach all the rabbits to practice celibacy.acinteyyo wrote:tattoogunman wrote:Also look at it this way - if everyone was celibate, you would effectively also be ending the cycle of rebirth because there would be no more babies!Shaswata_Panja wrote:you can have sex and use lifelong contraceptives or condoms for that..no need for celibacyWhat Shaswatta_Panja obviously meant was that for "effectively ending the cycle of rebirth by making no more babies" one does not need to be celibate, but use of lifelong contraceptives or condoms most probalby could lead to the same result, namely having no more babies.tattoogunman wrote:Um, celibacy means NO sexy time. If you are having sex, you are not celibate.
However I highly doubt that it's possible to end rebirth by merely "making no more babies". This might sound effective in theory, but actually I don't think it'll turn out that way.
Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
What about the other 30 realms of existence, some of which may not even require sexual reproduction to be born in?tattoogunman wrote:Also look at it this way - if everyone was celibate, you would effectively also be ending the cycle of rebirth because there would be no more babies!
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Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
waterchan wrote:What about the other 30 realms of existence, some of which may not even require sexual reproduction to be born in?tattoogunman wrote:Also look at it this way - if everyone was celibate, you would effectively also be ending the cycle of rebirth because there would be no more babies!
they are figurative I think for different psychological states or stations of life
Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
From the suttas it's clear to me that rebirth and planes of existence are described in a very literal way... but that's a discussion for another topic.Shaswata_Panja wrote:they are figurative I think for different psychological states or stations of lifewaterchan wrote:What about the other 30 realms of existence, some of which may not even require sexual reproduction to be born in?tattoogunman wrote:Also look at it this way - if everyone was celibate, you would effectively also be ending the cycle of rebirth because there would be no more babies!
Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
It is not some thing out there.Shaswata_Panja wrote:waterchan wrote:What about the other 30 realms of existence, some of which may not even require sexual reproduction to be born in?tattoogunman wrote:Also look at it this way - if everyone was celibate, you would effectively also be ending the cycle of rebirth because there would be no more babies!
they are figurative I think for different psychological states or stations of life
It is here.
If you are free from the notion of internal and external, you don't see a different between death and re-birth.
It is just dependent origination. just the change.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Celibacy as Silabatta-paramassa
exactly and the change implies, that you as a personal body gets destroyed..you as a personal mind gets destroyed..some other bodies or minds will inherit the remnants of this you..