Hello, it's me again, back with more questions! After some months of thought, contemplation and general living, I must
admit that I am still quite puzzled with regards to attachment. I have posted on several forums and have gotten several
replies (some contradictory to me) and so I am still searching for answers.
Basically I am on-board with attachment leading to craving. However, Geshe Kelsang has said there is nothing wrong of course with having nice partners, homes, and jobs. We are humans and need human conditions, however we don’t need attachment.
So how does one live in the modern world without having attachment? Is it ok to desire nice food, movies etc without being
attached? What is an example of attachment versus non-attachment? For instance, the Dalai Lama has hobbies too. Zen monks also have families.
I won't go into what I've written in my previous topics, but at least in my life and my practice, what I notice is this.
Desire arises at some point, like I want to watch a movie. So, I go and watch it. If however I don't get to watch the movie,
I have noticed that I am not terribly distressed.
Same goes for other things, let's say pizza. I quite like pizza! But if I don't get to eat it, I'm not really bothered. If
maybe let's say I did not get it eat it for months on end, then perhaps I would be a little more bothered. During the eating
of the pizza I don't particularly feel that I am craving for anything, I feel good (how good of course depends on the
pizza in question)
After that I feel pretty good, but once again I don't feel that I have to repeat the experience. So at least in my life,
desire comes, desire is addressed, it goes away, life continues. I don't feel a very strong "OMG I gotta have this!"
feeling about most things. Maybe if a movie that I really want to see comes out, then I might feel that for a while, but
it is easily dealt with by going to see the movie.
In a way it's similar to my cat's behavior. Sometimes he wants to go outside, and if he can't (like right now) he raises
a ruckus, but then he quiets down after a while. Then it might happen again, and sometimes he gets to go outside and
sometimes he doesn't. Either way, life goes on.
To me, this seems like a reasonable healthy way to live life. Attend to whatever desire arises, but don't get caught up in
it. Since the Middle Way is one of moderation, I do not forsake pizzas entirely, nor do I go after gourmet, extra-special
ones. (just as an analogy)
What do you all think? Am I missing something? I'm using pizzas as an example here, but I could substitute jobs, clothes
or whatever as well.
Modern life and attachment
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- Posts: 401
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 4:36 pm
Re: Modern life and attachment
It is actually craving which leads to attachment, as opposed to attachment leading to craving.Rianthe wrote:Hello, it's me again, back with more questions! After some months of thought, contemplation and general living, I must
admit that I am still quite puzzled with regards to attachment. I have posted on several forums and have gotten several
replies (some contradictory to me) and so I am still searching for answers.
Basically I am on-board with attachment leading to craving. However, Geshe Kelsang has said there is nothing wrong of course with having nice partners, homes, and jobs. We are humans and need human conditions, however we don’t need attachment.
From the Loka Sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance.
It might be wise to practice daily the five remembrances in order to be aware that even if the dukkha that we are currently feeling might not be much, we are still subject to aging, sickness, death and loss (the first four remembrances). It may sound pessimistic, yet the fifth remembrance is that we are the heir to our own karma. So in other words, we have the power in our own karma in whether or not we are afflicted by aging, sickness, death and loss. Unfortunately although fun, enjoying pizza or movies will do us no good when we (or a loved one) are dying.So how does one live in the modern world without having attachment? Is it ok to desire nice food, movies etc without being
attached? What is an example of attachment versus non-attachment? For instance, the Dalai Lama has hobbies too. Zen monks also have families.
I won't go into what I've written in my previous topics, but at least in my life and my practice, what I notice is this.
Desire arises at some point, like I want to watch a movie. So, I go and watch it. If however I don't get to watch the movie,
I have noticed that I am not terribly distressed.
Same goes for other things, let's say pizza. I quite like pizza! But if I don't get to eat it, I'm not really bothered. If
maybe let's say I did not get it eat it for months on end, then perhaps I would be a little more bothered. During the eating
of the pizza I don't particularly feel that I am craving for anything, I feel good (how good of course depends on the
pizza in question)
After that I feel pretty good, but once again I don't feel that I have to repeat the experience. So at least in my life,
desire comes, desire is addressed, it goes away, life continues. I don't feel a very strong "OMG I gotta have this!"
feeling about most things. Maybe if a movie that I really want to see comes out, then I might feel that for a while, but
it is easily dealt with by going to see the movie.
In a way it's similar to my cat's behavior. Sometimes he wants to go outside, and if he can't (like right now) he raises
a ruckus, but then he quiets down after a while. Then it might happen again, and sometimes he gets to go outside and
sometimes he doesn't. Either way, life goes on.
To me, this seems like a reasonable healthy way to live life. Attend to whatever desire arises, but don't get caught up in
it. Since the Middle Way is one of moderation, I do not forsake pizzas entirely, nor do I go after gourmet, extra-special
ones. (just as an analogy)
What do you all think? Am I missing something? I'm using pizzas as an example here, but I could substitute jobs, clothes
or whatever as well.
Here's a link to the five remembrances. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upajjhatthana_Sutta
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- Posts: 195
- Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:49 pm
Re: Modern life and attachment
what I have learnt from my years of practice..if you force on yourself something then your setting yourself up for intense emotional frustration and depression..If you see the wisdom of letting go of something, then let it go..if you don't then donot force upon yourself just becuase you read it in some scripture or sutta
for example..I have naturally given up porn, masturbation, smoking, drinking
The things that I cannot naturally give up at the moment or in the near future: love of sex, love for women, love for job, money, intellectual growth, a modicum of comfort, non-veg food
so end result is live your life, don't be too hard on yourself..if you are too hard, then I guess you are much further away from Enlightenment
for example..I have naturally given up porn, masturbation, smoking, drinking
The things that I cannot naturally give up at the moment or in the near future: love of sex, love for women, love for job, money, intellectual growth, a modicum of comfort, non-veg food
so end result is live your life, don't be too hard on yourself..if you are too hard, then I guess you are much further away from Enlightenment
- tattoogunman
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:08 pm
- Location: Plano, TX
Re: Modern life and attachment
I've thought about this as well, but as human beings we *need* certain things. We need food, water, and shelter for example. That doesn't mean that we *need* fancy caviar and lobster, champagne, and a million dollar house. Take transportation - most people *need* a car to get around, that doesn't mean it has to be a two hundred thousand dollar Aston Martin. Now when you start WANTING the Aston Martin, fancy house, fancy food, etc. and no you cannot have it, that leads to suffering through craving. Take me at the moment - I want to build a gaming computer. I don't need it, I want it so that I can play games. I'm a poor college student and I really cannot afford to buy the parts I need to build the computer. This bums me out (suffering) because I know I don't have the money to get my computer (craving). It took me the better part of about two weeks to get the idea out of my head and now I'm not so bummed about it anymore. This isn't to say that I won't do it at some point, it will just be when I actually have the money to spend. I apply this same logic to just about everything else - balance necessity/needs over wants.
Re: Modern life and attachment
Rianthe,
Sounds like things are going great for you. Usually if things are going just great people don't wonder if they are missing something, they just go about leading their great life. So....why are you worried about missing something?
chownah
Sounds like things are going great for you. Usually if things are going just great people don't wonder if they are missing something, they just go about leading their great life. So....why are you worried about missing something?
chownah
Re: Modern life and attachment
I don't understand "being ok" or not (moral judgement?) however desiring without attachment seems like water without liquid or sugar without sweetness.Rianthe wrote:... Is it ok to desire ...without being attached? ...
Inspiration is based on the exchange of different linguistic expressions. But inspiration is best knowing how language relates to truth.
Re: Modern life and attachment
"Life Isn't Just Suffering " http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... eisnt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Rianthe wrote:Hello, it's me again, back with more questions! After some months of thought, contemplation and general living, I must
admit that I am still quite puzzled with regards to attachment. I have posted on several forums and have gotten several
replies (some contradictory to me) and so I am still searching for answers.
Basically I am on-board with attachment leading to craving. However, Geshe Kelsang has said there is nothing wrong of course with having nice partners, homes, and jobs. We are humans and need human conditions, however we don’t need attachment.
So how does one live in the modern world without having attachment? Is it ok to desire nice food, movies etc without being
attached? What is an example of attachment versus non-attachment? For instance, the Dalai Lama has hobbies too. Zen monks also have families.
I won't go into what I've written in my previous topics, but at least in my life and my practice, what I notice is this.
Desire arises at some point, like I want to watch a movie. So, I go and watch it. If however I don't get to watch the movie,
I have noticed that I am not terribly distressed.
Same goes for other things, let's say pizza. I quite like pizza! But if I don't get to eat it, I'm not really bothered. If
maybe let's say I did not get it eat it for months on end, then perhaps I would be a little more bothered. During the eating
of the pizza I don't particularly feel that I am craving for anything, I feel good (how good of course depends on the
pizza in question)
After that I feel pretty good, but once again I don't feel that I have to repeat the experience. So at least in my life,
desire comes, desire is addressed, it goes away, life continues. I don't feel a very strong "OMG I gotta have this!"
feeling about most things. Maybe if a movie that I really want to see comes out, then I might feel that for a while, but
it is easily dealt with by going to see the movie.
In a way it's similar to my cat's behavior. Sometimes he wants to go outside, and if he can't (like right now) he raises
a ruckus, but then he quiets down after a while. Then it might happen again, and sometimes he gets to go outside and
sometimes he doesn't. Either way, life goes on.
To me, this seems like a reasonable healthy way to live life. Attend to whatever desire arises, but don't get caught up in
it. Since the Middle Way is one of moderation, I do not forsake pizzas entirely, nor do I go after gourmet, extra-special
ones. (just as an analogy)
What do you all think? Am I missing something? I'm using pizzas as an example here, but I could substitute jobs, clothes
or whatever as well.
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "
--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "
--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "