Spreading Buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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mikenz66
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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:18 am

TheDhamma wrote:Hi
My thinking is that many Goenka retreat participants will learn of Buddhism later after the retreat (books and other sources) and see that there really is not much difference from Goenka's teachings and mainstream Buddhism (none really, just a matter of emphasis).
Actually, they learn a lot of Theravada Buddhism from his Retreat Dhamma talks. I personally found it first irritating, then merely amusing, that he claimed to not be teaching Buddhism. There's nothing I recall hearing in his Dhamma talks that would be out of place at any other Theravada retreat. Of course, it's difficult to find a balance in these matters.

Metta
Mike
Last edited by retrofuturist on Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: corrected attribution of quote

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by pink_trike » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:58 am

The Dharma stands on it's own just fine without the container and institution of Buddhism.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by Sanghamitta » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:06 am

pink_trike wrote:The Dharma stands on it's own just fine without the container and institution of Buddhism.
So you would prefer " Dhammaism " ? Its got to be called something. Just calling it the Dhamma, which is essentially what the Buddha did, has no resonance in our culture as it did in his. We cant just talk about " that thing we do " like we are members of the Cosa Nostra.. :smile: I think the attempt not to call Buddhism Buddhism is a bigger waste of energy than any possible danger of instutionalism. As to spreading it, I think example is both the most effective and the most challenging.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:35 am

Well said, Sanghamitta.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by Sanghamitta » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:40 am

:anjali:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by genkaku » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:24 am

I think the attempt not to call Buddhism Buddhism is a bigger waste of energy than any possible danger of instutionalism.
Not a 'bigger' waste of time ... the same waste of time.

How many times must anyone say it: Words and institutions are tentative.

Tentative.

TENTATIVE.

Anyone who has ever done a bit of meditation knows that "Buddha" and "Dharma" and "Sangha" cannot enter here: This ... is ... it. This moment is not some other moment. Tentatively, in this moment, names are for nitwits.

But as a matter of encouragement and because suffering is not just some philosophical or religious construct, we talk about things and formulate agendas that will address that suffering.

The agendas are tentative.

The moment is not.

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by appicchato » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:52 am

Around and around we go... :popcorn:

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mikenz66
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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by mikenz66 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:27 am

pink_trike wrote:The Dharma stands on it's own just fine without the container and institution of Buddhism.
But it is strange when people claim that their container is less sectarian, and by implication superior, to other containers.

Mike

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by Sanghamitta » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:36 am

Or that they dont have a container, and that the absence of a container is superior. There is nothing tentative about the Buddha's Dhamma, because he was a Samasambuddhassa, only about our sometimes faltering realisation of it. I am quite happy to accept the appellation of nitwit.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by genkaku » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:39 am

appicchato wrote:Around and around we go... :popcorn:

I always knew you were a good dancer. :smile:

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by Sanghamitta » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:54 am

Clearly the idea that someone who has in fact been meditating for a good few years is quite happy to call themselves a Buddhist, and does not consider that a concept to be grown out of or abandoned this side of Enlightenment seems to be a matter of strong emotions for you genkaku. I wonder why that might be..Its not as though anyone is conducting raiding parties on other Buddhist groups at the point of a sword. I am puzzled. I am quite happy to persue my Theravadin practice as instructed by the Sangha, and not bother anyone else. And for you to practice according to your lights. Why does that bother you ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by genkaku » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:03 pm

Dear Sanghmitta -- No disrespect intended from here. It's not a matter of what bothers me. It's a matter of what actually works ... which is something you will find out for yourself and I will find out for mine. I just hope neither of us becomes too content.

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by Sanghamitta » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:12 pm

I have/am finding that for myself. I am content with the Dhamma. I am content that it pretty much represents what the Buddha rediscovered. I am not content with my own realisation of it. Its the work of lifetimes. I have no interest in telling anyone else that they should practice as I do. I am very interested in the views of other people whose practice is also based in the teachings of the elders. And also in the views of those who respect those teachings for what they are.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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appicchato
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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by appicchato » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:43 pm

genkaku wrote:I always knew you were a good dancer. :smile:
'Were' is the operative word here...you're good Adam... :smile:

Here's the deal folks...let's ask ourselves: 'Did the Buddha get out there and drum up business?'...no, (to my knowledge) he didn't...he made himself available to those interested in what he had to say...it's a personal journey to even find (interest in) the path...to (attempt to) drag someone, anyone, on to it is a futile endeavor...from personal observation it would seem ALL of us have more than enough on our own plates concerning our own liberation before attempting to 'save' (unsolicited) everyone else...if I were asked...

Be well... :smile:

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Re: Spreading Buddhism

Post by Sanghamitta » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:38 pm

I am reminded of verse 50 of The Dhammapada, in edited form it goes, " Let no one find fault with others, let one see one's own acts done and undone." Which I think shows the model for being an example, and the huge challenge that represents.For many people in the west still we will be the first Buddhist that people would have met..personally I find that a big responsibility and keep my own council unless asked.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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