A sad story of Vesali sutta (mass suicide)

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
LXNDR
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 5:15 am

Re: A sad story of Vesali sutta (mass suicide)

Post by LXNDR »

robertk wrote:Umm as i said earlier on this thread, the Buddha knew exactly what would happen, and taught the monks so that their deaths would be profitable.
but he's not omniscient as it appears to turn out, how could he have known? do you mean he taught them the method to specifically make them want to commit suicide?

this still must be reconciled with violation of the first precept
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Mkoll
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Re: A sad story of Vesali sutta (mass suicide)

Post by Mkoll »

LXNDR,

I'm curious: What are you trying to prove here? What do you want the outcome to be? What's your opinion on the matter?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
culaavuso
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Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: A sad story of Vesali sutta (mass suicide)

Post by culaavuso »

vinasp wrote:Hi everyone,

If it makes no sense when interpreted in a literal way, then why not interpret it in a figurative way?

The knife is a symbol of wisdom. And attaining arahantship is psychological death.

They seem to love this sort of word-play, but it is often impossible to translate.
In this interpretation, how would the question to Ananda regarding the community seeming depleted be interpreted? Are there other places in the Canon that describe a community of arahants as depleted? What is the Pāḷi word for depleted here and what shades of meaning does it have that make it difficult to translate into English?
LXNDR
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 5:15 am

Re: A sad story of Vesali sutta (mass suicide)

Post by LXNDR »

the celebrated quotation
Abhayarajakumara sutta (MN 58) wrote:
"In the same way, prince:

[1] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial (or: not connected with the goal), unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.

[2] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.

[3] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.

[4] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.

[5] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.

[6] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has sympathy for living beings."
Zadok
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Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:04 am

Re: A sad story of Vesali sutta (mass suicide)

Post by Zadok »

This story is not to be taken literally but as a lesson. If one clings to perceptions of duality ones own ignorance will inevitably be the cause of their death.

The moral of the story is ignorance is suicide.

Blessings to all.
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