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Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:38 am
by lyallben
Interesting article in Salon.com

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:06 am
by culaavuso
For those who don't wish to search for it: Abusing the Buddha is the article.

It seems to be discussing the phenomenon of mindfulness being applied to achieve worldly goals apart from the eightfold path.

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:56 am
by ihrjordan
I really don't see it as an issue. What these people are doing is an immoral thing and in the end they will see exploiting a key principle of our religion has made them no more happier and maybe even suffering more. As long as we know what we're doing is noble and pure then nothing else matters it'll pass just the same. Like Dhammapada verse 50 says "na paresaṃ vilomāni, na paresaṃ katākataṃ.
attanova avekkheyya, katāni akatāni ca" "One should not consider the faults of others, nor their doing or not doing good or bad deeds. One should consider only whether one has done or not done good or bad deeds." :anjali:

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:21 am
by Doshin
culaavuso wrote:For those who don't wish to search for it: Abusing the Buddha is the article.

It seems to be discussing the phenomenon of mindfulness being applied to achieve worldly goals apart from the eightfold path.
Please correct if I'm wrong, but the picture in the article, I dont' think the figure in the photo is Buddha, but rather Hotei/Budai ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotei
... Many people confuse Budai with Gautama Buddha.
_/\_

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:15 pm
by binocular
ihrjordan wrote:I really don't see it as an issue.
It seems like an issue inasmuch that under the name of Buddhism, they are teaching and doing things that don't seem to be Buddhist.

When one sees others abusing Buddhism - or at least it seems like they are abusing Buddhism - what should one do? Just sit there and take it?

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:29 pm
by Doshin
binocular wrote:
ihrjordan wrote:I really don't see it as an issue.
It seems like an issue inasmuch that under the name of Buddhism, they are teaching and doing things that don't seem to be Buddhist.

When one sees others abusing Buddhism - or at least it seems like they are abusing Buddhism ...
What they produce is "abused Buddhism", and that is not Buddhism.
binocular wrote:... - what should one do? Just sit there and take it?
Take what ? They are offending Buddhism, not you.

_/\_

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:53 pm
by binocular
Doshin wrote:Take what ? They are offending Buddhism, not you.
Depends on how much one identifies with Buddhism or being part of it or considers it relevant.

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:02 pm
by ihrjordan
binocular wrote:
Doshin wrote:Take what ? They are offending Buddhism, not you.
Depends on how much one identifies with Buddhism or being part of it or considers it relevant.
yes and depending on your degree of pride and ego that is how much that article and this whole "mindfulness movement" should offend someone

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:36 pm
by anatta1
It's a simply colour/visible object...
...
don't go too far....
Just seek in deep Paramattha Dhamma...


Don't let wrong understanding take you away....

stay within sammā-ditthi...

with metta
nobleanatta@gmail.com

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:55 pm
by Doshin
binocular wrote:
Doshin wrote:Take what ? They are offending Buddhism, not you.
Depends on how much one identifies with Buddhism or being part of it or considers it relevant.
I think that the feeling identified with Buddhism, is a good starting-point to work on; does one have his/her own view, or does on have the "Buddhist" view.

I just see "abused Buddhism" as another lineage, it might be right for someone, at their place on their path.

_/\_

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:04 pm
by Coyote
There is a sutta where the Buddha says that one should not get angry towards those who criticise or misrepresent Buddhism, but calmly explain the Dhamma and move on. Anyone know what this is?

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:49 pm
by culaavuso
Coyote wrote:There is a sutta where the Buddha says that one should not get angry towards those who criticise or misrepresent Buddhism, but calmly explain the Dhamma and move on. Anyone know what this is?
Perhaps this:
SN 7.2: Akkosa Sutta wrote: In the same way, brahman, that with which you have insulted me, who is not insulting; that with which you have taunted me, who is not taunting; that with which you have berated me, who is not berating: that I don't accept from you. It's all yours, brahman. It's all yours.

Whoever returns insult to one who is insulting, returns taunts to one who is taunting, returns a berating to one who is berating, is said to be eating together, sharing company, with that person. But I am neither eating together nor sharing your company, brahman. It's all yours. It's all yours.
...
You make things worse
when you flare up
at someone who's angry.
Whoever doesn't flare up
at someone who's angry
wins a battle
hard to win.

You live for the good of both
— your own, the other's —
when, knowing the other's provoked,
you mindfully grow calm.

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:05 pm
by Coyote
culaavuso wrote:
Perhaps this:

...

I'm not sure as I have only heard of the sutta, never read it. Think it was in a talk by ven. Thanissaro. Nevertheless, your sutta seems relevant to the topic at hand.

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:53 pm
by waterchan
Coyote wrote:There is a sutta where the Buddha says that one should not get angry towards those who criticise or misrepresent Buddhism, but calmly explain the Dhamma and move on. Anyone know what this is?
I believe you're looking for the panoptic DN 1:
If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should not give way to resentment, displeasure, or animosity against them in your heart. For if you were to become angry or upset in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If you were to become angry or upset when others speak in dispraise of us, would you be able to recognize whether their statements are rightly or wrongly spoken?”

“Certainly not, Lord.”

“If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as false, saying: ‘For such and such a reason this is false, this is untrue, there is no such thing in us, this is not found among us.’

“And if, bhikkhus, others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should not give way to jubilation, joy, and exultation in your heart. For if you were to become jubilant, joyful, and exultant in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should acknowledge what is fact as fact, saying: ‘For such and such a reason this is a fact, this is true, there is such a thing in us, this is found among us.’
And anyway, what is this abuse of Buddhism thing? Is that even possible?

Re: Abusing the Buddha

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:00 pm
by Sokehi
There is food for the body, and people, haven eaten and strengthend themselves enough for another day of samsaric endeavours some might do skillfull ore unskillfull things.

I think it's the same with the Dhamma, or parts of the dhamma. One can take these teachings or practices to act skillfull or use them to gain more power over others etc.

Both is just food and it's only my own body and mind I can (more or less) control how to use the strength gained thanks to such nourishment.

For me personally it's not a situation were I develop much worry about it. To realise the path is very difficult and who knows... some might start with these rather wrong or unskillfull practices but might end up with a more profound interest in the teachings of the blessed one.