Whew! Luckily Korea escaped this evil scourge...PeterB wrote:To Japan Tibet and China..
PS We always did know that ours was the maha of the mahayana!
Hmm... evasive.PeterB wrote:To Japan Tibet and China..
Shonin wrote: Nagarjuna made the exact opposite point repeatedly.
You cannot support this assertion because it is not accurate:PeterB wrote:Tell me more about the "exact opposite point " Shonin.
You have a habit of making snipes at Nagarjuna, calling him an essentialist and so on. And while your objections to some Mahayana thought is on target, it isn't accurate with regards to Nagarjuna nor to the concept of Sunyata. As the article I posted stated, Nagarjuna is quite consistent with the Nikayas.PeterB wrote:In reality of course what [Nagarjuna] did was to go back and drag in Atman. Dust it off, give it a new suit and name badge and send it scampering on its way..
There is no Buddhadhatu in Nagarjuna either.PeterB wrote:there is no Buddhadhatu in the Tripitaka.
Anyway, I don't think there's anything left to discuss here.In reality of course what [Nagarjuna] did was to go back and drag in Atman. Dust it off, give it a new suit and name badge and send it scampering on its way..
Me too !PeterB wrote:.
I joined a Theravada forum in part because I was fed up to the back teeth with Nagarjuna..
you'll find that if someone has an agenda it wouldn't matter if you brought the Buddha himself to the debate the other person will never change their minds so it is pretty much a waste of your own time and effort to try to correct their views. life is much happier just letting them go their own way.beeblebrox wrote:I
I tried to debate with him about these, but my knowledge of Buddhism didn't match with his, unfortunately (it seems like he's been studying this for like 30 or 40 years). So, that is one of the reasons why I'm here on this forum (and started to read the Nikayas)... to get to the bottom of this, get some fundamentals under my belt, so that I can debate (or more like correct some mistaken ideas about what this path is really about) more effectively in the future.
So, it seems like one of the problems with this piece is that some people can interpret it as something eternalist, like this guy apparently did. Maybe this was why Nagarjuna wrote one of each. Sorry if this is way off-topic for the thread, guys.
So, tiltbilings, you said;jcsuperstar wrote:it is my own view that knowing whether or not the fridge really exists or not really has nothing to do with my liberation
This is exactly what I was pointing to about Classical teachings, that all phenomena exist impermanently and due to Causes & Conditions only. So in the case of the Five Aggregates, they exist impermanently, due to Causes & Conditions, and have no Self that can be found within them.tiltbillings wrote:One thing that is clearly said is the all dhammas are empty of any sort of self existing thingness.Shonin wrote:What does Theravada say about "the illusion of all phenomenal existence" ?
It's really not about superiority at all. The Classical teachings are in fact completely necessary to learn before any of the Large Vehicle teachings will make sense. Even if one has only studied Large Vehicle teachings in this life, it means they have already studied Small Vehicle teachings. Otherwise they would either not believe or not be interested.PeterB wrote:Actually I finnd Dexing's post refreshingly honest. What he is saying indeed shows all the triumphalism and assumption of superiority that is prevelant in the Mahayana. even if it is not universal.
Since you are the making the claim as to what thew Theravada teaches, let us see your sutta support for your claim, then I'll be more than delighted to counter. Actual teachings, not what you are claiming they. Let us see if you can back it up your claims.Dexing wrote:Hi everyone,
Boy, three full pages since my post last night, and no one has directly responded to the position. I know the Therevada tradition. I studied in it for years in my early days. It places a lot of emphasis on the Suttas. I wonder if anyone can present some Suttas to counter my understanding. So far all I got was what amounts to; "You're wrong" and "Yeah, you're not right".