Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Dan74 wrote:Sanjay, I appreciate your perspective and tone, thank you.

On the other hand, we are in this world and pretty much everything we do is of no inherent value or importance. It is empty rather than absolute and it's meaning comes from what we and others give it. So how do we pick and choose in this relative world?

Can a realized person enjoy a slice of chocolate cake when offered one? Can a realized person enjoy a moment of physical intimacy with one he/she loves when the right moment arises? To me, the Dhamma ultimately is above the purity/impurity dichotomy when phenomena are apprehended as they are and being relative beings with physical bodies it may be quite the right thing to do, even in the complete absence of craving. That said, I am not talking about my experience here. I still get craving for the physical pleasure though nowhere near as strong as before. Not sure whether it's age or Dharma practice.

I may be wrong, of course.

Sanjay PS wrote:
In a nut shell , what i mentioned was that Venerable Ajhan Chah gave a straight forward answer on a question of bed partners . Its not that he missed anything , he was addressing an audience who were wanting to be serious on the path of Dhamma , even though many may have been lay people , hence the forthrightness of the answer . People who do not want to understand and accept suffering , or are simply not interested , its a different matter , they would naturally not accept that sexual urges are but a limiting factor in understanding the truth of our suffering .

Its not that there should be an aversion towards what people do or what we may do in our private chambers , its just acknowledging , yes that its just about sensation that we keep looking to endure and catch , but it soon ends , and the object is no longer as desirable, as it first seemingly was

For our two children , i have explained about good touch and bad touch , and they should always talk to us should this come up in their day to day living , once they are adults and married , there is no good touch , and no bad touch , it is just a natural part of being together , and then should we sincerely want to understand our life and its living , then any kind of a touch in a marriage has also no meaning . A couple can be far apart on the two edges of a bed , turned sideways, away from each other, with their head gently resting on their hand with their feet together , yet the night can be filled with the intimacy of content and good will , its a wonderful calm feeling of being satiated with the awareness of impermanence ,

Sanjay PS wrote:

Aloka wrote:

Sanjay PS wrote: Sensations are the heart of the Buddhas teachings Aloka

To me, emptiness is at the heart of the Buddha's teachings.

''Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya'' - nothing whatsoever should be clung to.

Emptiness , hollowness , yes ; is that what all the Buddhas point out to , guiding us find the same within ourselves .Hence , what you said is true , but to understand , realize and dip in this truth , all the Buddhas stress the nature of change of sensations as the important point , in order to break the shackles of clinging to a self . Will post this subject as a new topic .

Sensation is not a concept, it is experienced here and now . Say for example if one has got mildly angry , or hatred arises , one can feel heat and tautness , surging through the body . The ears get heated up , the breath becomes hot , it is the truth , for buddhist , and for non-buddhist alike . What is there to say it is a concept . Its just but a change of cause and effect , like when 2 parts of hydrogen is added to 1 part of oxygen , the resultant combination gives rises to water . Similarly , when this happens in the mind , that happens as the sensation . Nothing buddhist ,or abstract about it . Universal truth , for one and all to practice and put to good use in daily life

sN 20.7 Ani Sutta: The Peg

Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, there once was a time when the Dasarahas had a large drum called 'Summoner.' Whenever Summoner was split, the Dasarahas inserted another peg in it, until the time came when Summoner's original wooden body had disappeared and only a conglomeration of pegs remained.

"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.

"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.

"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"Form is like a glob of foam;
feeling, a bubble;
perception, a mirage;
fabrications, a banana tree;
consciousness, a magic trick
this has been taught
by the Kinsman of the Sun.

However you observe them,
appropriately examine them,
they're empty, void
to whoever sees them
appropriately."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

No doubt Aloka , that wisdom is to see things in different ways

Sanjay PS wrote:

Sensations are the heart of the Buddhas teachings Aloka

kitztack wrote:impermanence of ..........

Sanjay PS wrote:

Sensations are the heart of the Buddhas teachings Aloka

tiltbillings wrote:In 1979 in Barre, Massachusetts, during a question-and-answer session while on retreat, someone asked Ajahn Chah, "Is it necessarily a barrier to be in a sexual relationship? Can one not view sex in terms of it being the dance of the sacred marriage? Couldn't it be noble and mystical?" After Ajahn Chah had the question translated, he pondered for a moment and then started picking his nose in a very graphic and extended way. When everyone was rolling on the floor laughing and he was sure they definitely got the point, he pulled his finger out of his nose: "There's nothing more to it than that, except what the mind adds to it." Perhaps this story has been altered a bit in the telling, but it's still a good story.

kmath wrote:

tiltbillings wrote:In 1979 in Barre, Massachusetts, during a question-and-answer session while on retreat, someone asked Ajahn Chah, "Is it necessarily a barrier to be in a sexual relationship? Can one not view sex in terms of it being the dance of the sacred marriage? Couldn't it be noble and mystical?" After Ajahn Chah had the question translated, he pondered for a moment and then started picking his nose in a very graphic and extended way. When everyone was rolling on the floor laughing and he was sure they definitely got the point, he pulled his finger out of his nose: "There's nothing more to it than that, except what the mind adds to it." Perhaps this story has been altered a bit in the telling, but it's still a good story.

What do you really expect when you ask that kind of question to Ajahn Chah?

Sanjay PS wrote:Everything in this world is sensations Tilt .Even sensational news or sensational events get the maximum attention

Whether we like it or not , accept this truth or not , it does not matter . That is why the Buddha said , we don't love anyone or anything , it is just the sensations that keeps fooling us to believe the contrary .

Part VIII
Everything Is Teaching Us
Right Restraint
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... ah_web.pdf
Exercise restraint and caution about the six sense faculties of the eye seeing forms, the ear hearing sounds, and so forth. This is what we are constantly teaching about in so many different ways. It always comes back to this. But to be truthful with ourselves, are we really aware of what goes on? When the eye sees something, does delight come about? Do we really investigate? If we investigate, we will know that it is just this delight that is the cause for suffering to be born. Aversion is the cause for suffering to be born. These two reactions actually have the same value. When they occur, we can see the fault of them. If there is delight, it is merely delight. If there is aversion, it is merely aversion. This is the way to quell them.

For example, we attach special importance to the head. From the time we are born, in this society, we learn that the head is something of the utmost significance. If anyone touches it or hits it, we are ready to die. If we are slapped on other parts of our body, it’s no big deal; but we give this special importance to the head, and we get really angry if anyone slaps it.

It’s the same with the senses. Sexual intercourse excites the minds of people, but it really isn’t different from sticking a finger in your nostril. Would that mean anything special to you? But worldly beings have this attachment to the other entrance; whether it is animals or humans, it has special importance to them. If it were a finger picking a nostril, they wouldn’t get excited over that. But the sight of this one inflames us. Why is this? This is where becoming is. If we don’t attach special importance to it, then it’s just the same as putting a finger in your nostril. Whatever happened inside, you wouldn’t get excited; you’d just pull out some snot and be done with it.

But how far is your thinking from such a perception? The ordinary, natural truth of the matter is just like this. Seeing in this way, we aren’t creating any becoming, and without becoming there won’t be a birth; there won’t be happiness or suffering over it, there won’t be delight coming about. There is no grasping attachment when we realize this place for what it is. But worldly beings want to put something there. That’s what they like. They want to work in the dirty place. Working in a clean place is not interesting, but they rush to work in this place. And they don’t even have to be paid to do it!

Please look at this. It’s just a conventional reality that people are stuck in. This is an important point of practice for us. If we contemplate the holes and entrances of our nose and ears and the rest, we can see that they are all the same, just orifices filled with unclean substances. Or are any of them clean? So we should contemplate this in the way of Dhamma. The truly fearful is here, nowhere else. This is where we humans lose our minds.

Thule wrote:

It’s the same with the senses. Sexual intercourse excites the minds of people, but it really isn’t different from sticking a finger in your nostril. Would that mean anything special to you? But worldly beings have this attachment to the other entrance; whether it is animals or humans, it has special importance to them. If it were a finger picking a nostril, they wouldn’t get excited over that. But the sight of this one inflames us. Why is this? This is where becoming is. If we don’t attach special importance to it, then it’s just the same as putting a finger in your nostril. Whatever happened inside, you wouldn’t get excited; you’d just pull out some snot and be done with it.