Which is true enough; however, one should never, ever underestimate the capacity of the self to manufacture a sense of adamantine certainty.kirk5a wrote: I think Dhamma-insight is on a primal level.
Commitment to a narrative of liberation
- tiltbillings
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Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- retrofuturist
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Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
Greetings,
Retro.
I was speaking at this sort of level...kirk5a wrote:Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but the language you used suggested to me insight as views, ideas, outlooks, conclusions, lines of reasoning, worldviews... and as such, unreliable, and not truly eliminating doubt. I think Dhamma-insight is on a primal level.
Metta,Kalama Sutta wrote:When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness" — then you should enter & remain in them.' Thus was it said.
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
I agree, there are apparently a variety of ways in which one can be deceived about mental and physical phenomena. However, I was simply reflecting on the difference between views, ideas, convictions and the like (conventional "insights") which are rather unreliable (one could change one's mind about such things in the future), and the actuality of one's own basic experience.tiltbillings wrote:Which is true enough; however, one should never, ever underestimate the capacity of the self to manufacture a sense of adamantine certainty.kirk5a wrote: I think Dhamma-insight is on a primal level.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
Sounds good indeed. In line with what I was thinking about, first of all, one knows the above for oneself (not simply "believing" such), and secondly, what one knows are qualities (not beliefs or narratives), which actually do lead to welfare and happiness. So that is going well beyond simply hanging on to some "narrative of liberation"retrofuturist wrote: I was speaking at this sort of level...
Kalama Sutta wrote:When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness" — then you should enter & remain in them.' Thus was it said.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
Truth.tiltbillings wrote:Which is true enough; however, one should never, ever underestimate the capacity of the self to manufacture a sense of adamantine certainty.kirk5a wrote: I think Dhamma-insight is on a primal level.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
Has anyone else been following the other thread which spawned this one? It's been all over the map, yet gone nearly nowhere...
I had expected at least some Madhyamika stuff, maybe prompting some discussion of how Nagarjuna & various Mahayana groups in Central India in general were reacting to Sarvastivada-Sautrantika bickering over time, while Sri Lanka remained largely aloof from these goings-on until Buddhaghosa brought the Theravada up to speed on continental developments, dovetailing into possible avenues of discussion vis-a-vis prajnaparamita and the various abhidhammas, if nothing else... anyway, no such luck.
I also lament the wild, wild west of Mahayana texts in terms of the discussions about consciousness in that thread.
/
I had expected at least some Madhyamika stuff, maybe prompting some discussion of how Nagarjuna & various Mahayana groups in Central India in general were reacting to Sarvastivada-Sautrantika bickering over time, while Sri Lanka remained largely aloof from these goings-on until Buddhaghosa brought the Theravada up to speed on continental developments, dovetailing into possible avenues of discussion vis-a-vis prajnaparamita and the various abhidhammas, if nothing else... anyway, no such luck.
I also lament the wild, wild west of Mahayana texts in terms of the discussions about consciousness in that thread.
/
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
Hi Dave,
I've been reading some of it (there is too much of it for me to really digest all of it). Particularly your contributions, and replies to your contributions.
As you say, it's all over the place on all sorts of issues, most of which seem to have little to do with the OP.
Mike
I've been reading some of it (there is too much of it for me to really digest all of it). Particularly your contributions, and replies to your contributions.
As you say, it's all over the place on all sorts of issues, most of which seem to have little to do with the OP.
Mike
- tiltbillings
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Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
What thread are you referencing here?daverupa wrote:Has anyone else been following the other thread which spawned this one? It's been all over the map, yet gone nearly nowhere...
I had expected at least some Madhyamika stuff, maybe prompting some discussion of how Nagarjuna & various Mahayana groups in Central India in general were reacting to Sarvastivada-Sautrantika bickering over time, while Sri Lanka remained largely aloof from these goings-on until Buddhaghosa brought the Theravada up to speed on continental developments, dovetailing into possible avenues of discussion vis-a-vis prajnaparamita and the various abhidhammas, if nothing else... anyway, no such luck.
I also lament the wild, wild west of Mahayana texts in terms of the discussions about consciousness in that thread.
/
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- imagemarie
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Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
"Early Buddhism and Mahayana", I think tilt.
- tiltbillings
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Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
Thanks. Obviously, had I looked where I should obviously have looked I would seen the obvious.imagemarie wrote:"Early Buddhism and Mahayana", I think tilt.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
Yes, over on Dharma Wheel:imagemarie wrote:"Early Buddhism and Mahayana", I think tilt.
http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=14040
It is now up to 33 pages, though most of that does not directly address the topic. Much of the discussion has been about technicalities of various Mahayana interpretations of not-self and so on...
Mike
Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
As far as I can tell, the thread is mostly rehashing Madhyamika-Yogacara debates. I'm not sure why self-reflexivity has even come up as a hinge issue there... the early Buddhist texts seem to have been mostly, though perhaps politely, ignored.mikenz66 wrote:Much of the discussion has been about technicalities of various Mahayana interpretations of not-self and so on...
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
Not necessarily. Many of our politicians don't manage such a feattiltbillings wrote:Thanks. Obviously, had I looked where I should obviously have looked I would seen the obvious.imagemarie wrote:"Early Buddhism and Mahayana", I think tilt.
But probably, since you are who you are.
Kim
Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
daverupa,
What is self reflexivity?
chownah
What is self reflexivity?
chownah
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Commitment to a narrative of liberation
From Tibetan tenet system perspective, which is hardly an accurate portrayal of Indian Yogachara. It all makes me very glad not to be a Mahayanist.daverupa wrote:As far as I can tell, the thread is mostly rehashing Madhyamika-Yogacara debates.mikenz66 wrote:Much of the discussion has been about technicalities of various Mahayana interpretations of not-self and so on...
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723