Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by Ceisiwr »

SarathW wrote:Hi Clw


Buddha did not know every thing in the world!
We all can have only one thought moment at a time.
Even Buddha will have only one thought (pay attention) moment at a time.
So Buddha will know something only if he pay attention to it.
Buddha is a super human but he is not a superman.
:)

That's basically what I was saying ...
“For that is false, bhikkhu, which has a deceptive nature, and that is true which has an undeceptive nature—Nibbāna. Therefore a bhikkhu possessing this truth possesses the supreme foundation of truth. For this, bhikkhu, is the supreme noble truth, namely, Nibbāna, which has an undeceptive nature.” MN 140

danieLion
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by danieLion »


nibbuti
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by nibbuti »

danieLion wrote:Can Buddhism be improved upon? Was the Buddha perfect?
Should papanca be pursued? Are there more important things to care about? :shrug:

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Aloka
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by Aloka »

danielLion wrote:Was the Buddha perfect?
Depends on how you define ''perfect''. He was free from greed, hatred and delusion, so yes, I think he was perfect in that particular sense.
danieLion wrote:
Can Buddhism be improved upon?
Maybe if we practice more and speculate less, we'll develop the wisdom to be able fully understand the Buddha's teachings first.

:anjali:

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Ben
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by Ben »

Aloka wrote:
danieLion wrote:
Can Buddhism be improved upon?
Maybe if we practice more and speculate less, we'll develop the wisdom to be able fully understand the Buddha's teachings first.

:anjali:
Well said, Aloka!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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appicchato
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by appicchato »

Why is a "western response" so hated?
'Hated' may seem a little harsh...although, to some ( :soap: ), many tend to be dissection fanatics (also maybe a little harsh)...

danieLion
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by danieLion »

Aloka wrote:
danielLion wrote:Was the Buddha perfect?
Depends on how you define ''perfect''. He was free from greed, hatred and delusion, so yes, I think he was perfect in that particular sense.
danieLion wrote:
Can Buddhism be improved upon?
Maybe if we practice more and speculate less, we'll develop the wisdom to be able fully understand the Buddha's teachings first.

:anjali:
Hi Aloka,
I agree that speculating too much can cause problems for some people some of the time. I could be wrong, but knowing when this is happening is mostly if not always personal decision, and only apporpriately interpersonal when the speculator seeks the advice of another. I might be mistaken, but unsolicited guidance is usually if not always unhelpful. Furthermore, when you say, "depends on what you mean by perfect..."--and I agree, it does depend on that (but Dave Snyder et al have already addressed it), are you not speculating?
Kindly,
dL
Last edited by danieLion on Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

danieLion
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by danieLion »

Hi nubbuti,
nibbuti wrote:
danieLion wrote:Can Buddhism be improved upon? Was the Buddha perfect?
Should papanca be pursued? Are there more important things to care about? :shrug:
What, exactly, makes you believe these questions are papanca-like?
Kindly,
dL

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Aloka
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by Aloka »

danieLion wrote:
I agree that speculating too much can cause problems for some people some of the time. But knowing when this is happening is mostly if not always personal decision, and only apporpriately interpersonal when the speculator seeks the advice of another. Unsolicited guidance is usually if not always unhelpful.
Hi daniel,

I'm sorry but I don't really understand what you were trying to say there.
Furthermore, when you say, "depends on what you mean by perfect..."--and I agree, it does depend on that (it's a point I was hoping soemone would bring up), are you not speculating?
No. Wanting further clarification isn't speculating.

Must go now... its getting late here in the UK, so have fun and goodnight!


:hello: :zzz:

nibbuti
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by nibbuti »

danieLion wrote: What, exactly, makes you believe these questions are papanca-like?
They're 1. not specific, and 2. not connected with the goal, but seem to be from a mind that is still bothered by doubt or indecision (vicikicchā).

:toilet:

danieLion
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by danieLion »

Hi Aloka,
Aloka wrote:No. Wanting further clarification isn't speculating.
But you also said:
Aloka wrote:Depends on how you define ''perfect''.
I agree that seeking clarification has value. Perhaps I'm in error, but that kind of a satement doesn't imply clarification seeking.

I might be wrong, but conditionals like the word "depends" and the act of defining necessarily involves speculating. Would you please clarify from your perspective precisely as you can how seeking clarity is mutually exclusive from inquiries about conditionals and attempts at definition.
Kindly,
dL
Last edited by danieLion on Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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seeker242
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by seeker242 »

danieLion wrote:Can Buddhism be improved upon? Was the Buddha perfect?

Currently, I'm inclined to say "yes" to the first question and "no" to the second.

Kindly,
dL
Interesting. I am inclined to say no to the first and yes to the second!

danieLion
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by danieLion »

Hi nibbuti,
nibbuti wrote:
danieLion wrote: What, exactly, makes you believe these questions are papanca-like?
They're 1. not specific, and 2. not connected with the goal, but seem to be from a mind that is still bothered by doubt or indecision (vicikicchā).
I agree that they're not very specific but exactly how does that make them papanca or papanca-like? I've extensively elaborated on my take on papanca here in this post and the subsequent discussion in this thread.

Which part of "the goal" requires us to believe that Buddhism cannot be improved on and that the Buddha was perfect? And exaclty how does this imply doubt/indecision?
Kindly,
dL

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SDC
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by SDC »

Is there room for improvement?

Yes.

Is improvement possible?

No. It's too big.

Was the Buddha perfect?

He is in my imagination and that is enough to help me strive to improve my current situation towards that direction.

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SDC
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Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha

Post by SDC »

nibbuti wrote:but seem to be from a mind that is still bothered by doubt or indecision (vicikicchā).
I like how casual you were with this.

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