So, in other words, you have no idea.clw_uk wrote:tiltbillings wrote:You tell me.clw_uk wrote:
Does that break Buddhist moral code, or is the Buddhist moral code subjective/relative?
You tell me.Is then murder justified in Buddhism, if it saves lives?
I was asking you ...
Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
So, in other words, you have no idea.
Once again, I was asking Your opinion
So it's not a case of if im guessing or not, since I haven't stated my position, not yet anyway, but have asked for yours. It's a case of you actually responding to a post, which once again your failing to do.
I dread to think how you would perform in an actual face to face debate :/
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
Better than you, no doubt. At this point in the discussion, you need to be stating what you think rather than asking others here to do the heavy lifting.clw_uk wrote:So, in other words, you have no idea.
Once again, I was asking Your opinion
So it's not a case of if im guessing or not, since I haven't stated my position, not yet anyway, but have asked for yours. It's a case of you actually responding to a post, which once again your failing to do.
I dread to think how you would perform in an actual face to face debate :/
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
Better than you, no doubt. At this point in the discussion, you need to be stating what you think rather than asking others here to do the heavy lifting.
No dear, you need to answer my post first
I would be careful of inductive reasoningBetter than you, no doubt
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
It is direct observation from the rebirth thread.clw_uk wrote:
I would be careful of inductive reasoning
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
tiltbillings wrote:It is direct observation from the rebirth thread.clw_uk wrote:
I would be careful of inductive reasoning
As I said, be careful of inductive reasoning dear
Just because the sun arose today, it doesn't mean it will tomorrow (which was the implication of your flimsy post)
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
So, as you have consistently argued poorly in the past, I can safely assume that you are going to continue that trend, though I would have no problem with being shown to be wrong. Good luck with that.clw_uk wrote:tiltbillings wrote:It is direct observation from the rebirth thread.clw_uk wrote:
I would be careful of inductive reasoning
As I said, be careful of inductive reasoning dear
Just because the sun arose today, it doesn't mean it certainly will tomorrow (which was the implication of your flimsy post)
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
Well if you dont answer me, then how can you see if I fail again or not, in your eyes
Yet atm I'm better off getting blood from a stone than getting a meaningful response from you
Though on a side note, your understanding of my recent posts in the rebirth thread has been, shall we say, poor at best.
Yet atm I'm better off getting blood from a stone than getting a meaningful response from you
Though on a side note, your understanding of my recent posts in the rebirth thread has been, shall we say, poor at best.
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
Interesting pointI suppose its because he did not try to compose some unifying ethical theory.
There is a section in Peter Harvey's An Introduction to Buddhist ethics p49 on Comparisons with Western ethical systems.
Would you see western ethical theories as a failure as they try to reduce morality to one concept?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
I don't know, what constitutes a failure, all the various well known theories tend to address and make good points right?
http://www.books.google.com/books?id=IN ... ing+Ethics
Remembering what was said and done long ago ...chp 16 of idiots guide to ethics makes the points of mixing recipes, "Life is complicated, and no single theory can adequately handle all the myriad life-and-death dilemmas that crop up."A key aspect of Western ethical systems is that moral prescriptions
should be universally applicable to all people who can understand them.
Buddhism, though, is generally gradualist in approach, so while it has
ethical norms which all should follow from a sense of sympathy with
fellow beings (such as not killing living beings), others only apply to those
who are ready for them, as their commitment to moral and spiritual
training deepens. (Harvey, p. 51)
http://www.books.google.com/books?id=IN ... ing+Ethics
- DNS
- Site Admin
- Posts: 17186
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
- Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
- Contact:
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
Perhaps all of the above.clw_uk wrote: Interestingly I can't seem to define Buddhas ethics, be it deontological, consequentialist, natural ethics, sceptical or subjective etc.
Much of the Vinaya --> deontological
Skillful means --> consequentialist
4NT, DO, kamma --> natural ethics
Investigation, energy vicaya, viriya --> skeptical
Vinaya changing over time and circumstances --> subjective
But mostly natural ethics. Living beings are naturally subject to pain and suffering and there is a way to the end of suffering. Kamma and DO are natural events that can be observed and experienced.
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27848
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
Hi clw_uk,
Kindly,
dL
Inductive reasoning is only a problem when we forget that it is about probability and not about a uniformity principle. In all likelihood, the sun will rise tomorrow. Likewise, Tilt merely proposed you're likely to behave like he's observed you behaving in the past. From what I know of Tilt, he has strong obersvational powers and a fairly accurate track-record. It is in your power and your power only to provide a counterinductive example via your behavior and perform well--by his standards--in debate.clw_uk wrote:tiltbillings wrote:It is direct observation from the rebirth thread.clw_uk wrote:
I would be careful of inductive reasoning
As I said, be careful of inductive reasoning dear
Just because the sun arose today, it doesn't mean it will tomorrow (which was the implication of your flimsy post)
Kindly,
dL
Last edited by danieLion on Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
Hi David, clw_uk,
Kindly,
dL
Which is another way of saying that the closest thing Buddhist ethics comes to in Western philosophy is humanist and pragmatist ethics.David N. Snyder wrote:Perhaps all of the above.clw_uk wrote: Interestingly I can't seem to define Buddhas ethics, be it deontological, consequentialist, natural ethics, sceptical or subjective etc.
Much of the Vinaya --> deontological
Skillful means --> consequentialist
4NT, DO, kamma --> natural ethics
Investigation, energy vicaya, viriya --> skeptical
Vinaya changing over time and circumstances --> subjective
But mostly natural ethics. Living beings are naturally subject to pain and suffering and there is a way to the end of suffering. Kamma and DO are natural events that can be observed and experienced.
Kindly,
dL
Re: Improving Buddhism/The Imperfect Buddha
Hi clw-uk,
Kindly,
dL
There are several Western ethical theories that reject such reductionism. Again, humanism and pragmatism come to mind.clw_uk wrote:Interesting pointI suppose its because he did not try to compose some unifying ethical theory.
There is a section in Peter Harvey's An Introduction to Buddhist ethics p49 on Comparisons with Western ethical systems.
Would you see western ethical theories as a failure as they try to reduce morality to one concept?
Kindly,
dL