Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

I have some questions about karma. Its intriguing how Buddha never purported to know about heaven, gods, etc and yet talked of karma, past lives, and so on. Is this a contradiction?

And once we snuff out the flame and our mind becomes still, we are free from the cycle of rebirth. But doesn't this spell death? Wouldn't it be better to be reborn, albeit into suffering, but at least we would be alive. Nirvana seems to be an emptiness, a cessation of life.

I am obviously missing something.

Or is my concept of karma wrong: perhaps the release from karma can be interpreted as the release from impermanence in thought alone. We have only one life and nirvana is simply a higher realm of existence.

Thank you for your comments.

Hi,

You might find this talk about karma helpful. Its called "Who is pulling the strings" and is by Ajahn Amaro, abbot of Amaravati monastery. There's also a question and anwer session at the link, which you can listen to after the talk.

http://www.amaravati.org/teachings/audi ... ation/2083

With kind wishes,

Aloka

Aloka wrote:Hi,

You might find this talk about karma helpful. Its called "Who is pulling the strings" and is by Ajahn Amaro, abbot of Amaravati monastery. There's also a question and anwer session at the link, which you can listen to after the talk.

http://www.amaravati.org/teachings/audi ... ation/2083

With kind wishes,

Aloka

Thanks buddy:)

"Non-existence scares the children and brings peace to the wise"

Think of the implications of existing: you will exist in innumerable posibilities, good and bad, very good and very bad, very very good and very very bad

Also, you should not try to imagine non existence, nirvana. You will not exist separate from the whole world, you will be in everything and nowhere, something like that. This concept is imposible to describe in words or imagine, budha said that nirvana is like the smell of a rose, it is imposible to describe in words the smell of a rose.

dxm_dxm wrote:"Non-existence scares the children and brings peace to the wise"

Think of the implications of existing: you will exist in innumerable posibilities, good and bad, very good and very bad, very very good and very very bad

Also, you should not try to imagine non existence, nirvana. You will not exist separate from the whole world, you will be in everything and nowhere, something like that. This concept is imposible to describe in words or imagine, budha said that nirvana is like the smell of a rose, it is imposible to describe in words the smell of a rose.

Thank you for your reply, dxm. Very interesting. But I am not sure if nirvana is equivalent to non existence. I believe nirvana is cessation of many things, but not of existence itself.

Another thing I was wondering about was the concept of karma and good deeds. We must always try to do good deeds, but many good deeds lead to bad deeds do they not? I give a beggar money and he uses it to buy a gun and kill someone. Am I not complicit?

It seems to me that even a buddha would fall into this karmic sin. But how is that possible?

jakartaguytebet wrote:
Another thing I was wondering about was the concept of karma and good deeds. We must always try to do good deeds, but many good deeds lead to bad deeds do they not? I give a beggar money and he uses it to buy a gun and kill someone. Am I not complicit?

It seems to me that even a buddha would fall into this karmic sin. But how is that possible?

The Buddha said that kamma is intention.

"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

So therefore if you give a beggar money to buy food and then he buys a gun, that wasn't your intention, so you are not responsible for him killing someone.

Regarding the results of kamma, its also worth knowing that the Buddha said that the precise results of kamma are unconjecturable:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

jakartaguytebet wrote:I have some questions about karma. Its intriguing how Buddha never purported to know about heaven, gods, etc and yet talked of karma, past lives, and so on. Is this a contradiction?

I don't know where you heard this. The Buddha was the teacher of gods and men, he regularly gave teachings to celestial beings, either when they visited him, or when he visited them.

I recommend some background reading to learn the basics so that your questions here will be more fruitful.

Aloka wrote:

jakartaguytebet wrote:
Another thing I was wondering about was the concept of karma and good deeds. We must always try to do good deeds, but many good deeds lead to bad deeds do they not? I give a beggar money and he uses it to buy a gun and kill someone. Am I not complicit?

It seems to me that even a buddha would fall into this karmic sin. But how is that possible?

The Buddha said that kamma is intention.

"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

So therefore if you give a beggar money to buy food and then he buys a gun, that wasn't your intention, so you are not responsible for him killing someone.

Regarding the results of kamma, its also worth knowing that the Buddha said that the precise results of kamma are unconjecturable:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Thank you, I see what you mean.

Karma is intention. It is a metaphysical 'event' and not a physical consequence.

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:

jakartaguytebet wrote:I have some questions about karma. Its intriguing how Buddha never purported to know about heaven, gods, etc and yet talked of karma, past lives, and so on. Is this a contradiction?

I don't know where you heard this. The Buddha was the teacher of gods and men, he regularly gave teachings to celestial beings, either when they visited him, or when he visited them.

I recommend some background reading to learn the basics so that your questions here will be more fruitful.

It depends on one's school of buddhism my friend.

Metaphysical speculation of gods, other dimensions etc is unprovable and best to avoid.

'Suppose a man is struck by a poisoned arrow and the doctor wishes to take out the arrow immediately. Suppose the man does not want the arrow removed until he knows who shot it, his age, his parents, and why he shot it. What would happen? If he were to wait until all these questions have been answered, the man might die first." Life is so short. It must not be spent in endless metaphysical speculation that does not bring us any closer to the truth.'

Which is why the concept of karma is problematic once it is extended outside our lifetime. It has an element of supposition to it in this case.

jakartaguytebet wrote:

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:

jakartaguytebet wrote:I have some questions about karma. Its intriguing how Buddha never purported to know about heaven, gods, etc and yet talked of karma, past lives, and so on. Is this a contradiction?

I don't know where you heard this. The Buddha was the teacher of gods and men, he regularly gave teachings to celestial beings, either when they visited him, or when he visited them.

I recommend some background reading to learn the basics so that your questions here will be more fruitful.

It depends on one's school of buddhism my friend.

Metaphysical speculation of gods, other dimensions etc is unprovable and best to avoid.

'Suppose a man is struck by a poisoned arrow and the doctor wishes to take out the arrow immediately. Suppose the man does not want the arrow removed until he knows who shot it, his age, his parents, and why he shot it. What would happen? If he were to wait until all these questions have been answered, the man might die first." Life is so short. It must not be spent in endless metaphysical speculation that does not bring us any closer to the truth.'

Which is why the concept of karma is problematic once it is extended outside our lifetime. It has an element of supposition to it in this case.

True, but one day "string theory" might be able to explain some of the amazing insights the Buddha had...

True, but one day "string theory" might be able to explain some of the amazing insights the Buddha had...[/quote]

Go on, you have my attention

Are you referring to other dimensions?
But the problem with string theory is that is not based on observation and cannot be tested. It may evolve into a religion.
But perhaps it can be proven mathematically; or if not proven shown to be viable.

jakartaguytebet wrote:Metaphysical speculation of gods, other dimensions etc is unprovable and best to avoid.

That has nothing to do with your initial post, which boldly stated:

the Buddha never taught about gods

By what means did you arrive at that conclusion if not by metaphysical speculation? I asked where you heard it. Maybe your source was also speculating that the Buddha never taught about gods?

He obviously did, and any statement to the contrary will have to dismiss most of his teachings, and I don't mean just the Commentaries.

Are you saying the buddha taught about gods? Or spoke about gods?
If so, you have taught me something new.
I thought he avoided such questions, as evidenced by the quote I cut and pastd for you.
Thx

jakartaguytebet wrote:Are you saying the buddha taught about gods? Or spoke about gods?
If so, you have taught me something new.
I thought he avoided such questions, as evidenced by the quote I cut and pastd for you.

Could you give the source of your quote, please ?

Here is a reference about gods from MN 41

18. "If a householder who observes conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct, should wish: 'Oh, that on the dissolution of the body, after death, I might reappear in the company of the gods of the Four Kings!' it is possible that on the dissolution of the body, after death, he may do so. Why is that? Because he observes conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html

Hello,
i´m quite experienced in buddhist teaching. What is bothering me is, that there are no quotes of Pali-Kanon. Pali-Kanon is not the problem, but where
to fin it. i´m in posession of a translation of an ancient Pali-Canon from Colombo. This is a translation into german. On the left side there are the
page numbers of the original ancient Pali-Kanon. I personally do prefer Dighanikayo becaus Gotamo Buddho is telling more about the things he didn´t
speak before.How much karma one is accumulating is depending on the amount of good and bad deeds. The accounting is done after death.
If one has not enough good deeds he will have to do more life circles to proceed.
Buddhist Karma is in no way throwing you back but to stay or you proceed further.
There are 32 physical signs on our body that tell how far your Karma is advanced.
You will ge a great amont of positive Karma doing the Eightfold Path.

anando