Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
dagon
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by dagon » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:07 am

[/quote]
Hi Paul,

This may be interesting for you to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkamCVD ... 58791FFE43

Have fun![/quote]

hi Reflection
Thanks, yes you are right - and maybe Buddhism is the only really sane thing in this crazy life :smile:
Metta
paul

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Alex123
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by Alex123 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:37 pm

SarathW wrote: Is it possible that we are here for the same reason?
Maybe there is no purpose other than cause-effect, evolution, etc.

What is the purpose of water being wet or 2+2=4?

It is just the way it is.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Martin Po
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by Martin Po » Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:03 pm

When there is conditions to manifestation of such or such phenomena, there is manifestation of such or such phenomena.

Agree with Alex123.

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clw_uk
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by clw_uk » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:16 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
reflection wrote: I think the need to have a purpose is something created by humans. It's like an emotion or feeling most of us have. But is it -as a matter of speaking- written in the stars? I don't think so.
We are in this earth because we have not yet attained nirvana, that's the way I would put it.
I agree; having meaning and purpose are human inventions. Even if there were some "Creator-being" what would be his (it usually is a he) purpose and reason for even creating us, testing us? Is it all some kind mad scientist experiment? Why can't we all just go to heaven for eternity without all the temptations, the testing? Why do some live to 4 months and die and others to 104?
I agree

I always remember something Richard Dawkins said

"You can ask how a mountain got there or why its there, but to ask the meaning of a mountain is a meaningless question. The mountain is just a mountain. The same with life"

Paraphrased
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

pegembara
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by pegembara » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:15 am

dagon wrote:Please correct me where i am wrong because i am "here" to get answers not to give answers.

My understanding is that i am "here" as a result of grasping that caused caused me to be born in to a cycle of birth, death and suffering and the karma that i have created for myself by exercise the choices in my existences. When i have looked at other belief systems i was looking for some other entity to blame for my condition rather than take responsibility for my own past and present actions. My purpose in life is what i set for myself and that purpose has changed over the years. The purpose i set myself in my younger years was to enjoy by creating illusions of happiness exemplified by using large quantities of intoxicants.

What Buddhas enlighten compassionate teachings have given me is an understanding of why i am here, what is reality and what i can do about it. With some knowledge and a little understanding of the The Four Noble Truths and The Noble Eightfold Path my purpose that i set myself changes again.

Metta
paul
This, monks, is the Noble Truth concerning the Origin of Suffering: verily, it originates in that craving which causes rebirth, which produced delight and passion, and seeks pleasure now here, now there; that is to say, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for continued existence, craving for nonexistence.
Isn't this what all living beings do? But the solution is not to end "existence" for that would be akin to suicide.
This, monks, is the Noble Truth concerning the Way which leads to the Cessation of Suffering: verily, it is this Noble Eightfold Way, that is to say, right views, right thought, right speech, right action, right means of livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right stillness.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

barcsimalsi
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by barcsimalsi » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:30 pm

I have a hard time understanding what is "craving for non-existence". If one does not want to exist, how is it relate to craving? It is like implying if one says one does not want food thus one is craving for non-food, how does this makes sense?

Plus, if birth is suffering, suppose non-existence is free from suffering. I can't see any difference between the end of one's birth and the end of one's existence?

The Nikaya seems to be very evasive on the question of whether a person who attained Nirvana still exist or not after death so i hope any members here can help out my question above, thanks in advance.

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clw_uk
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:43 pm

Craving for non-existence can mean not wanting to live, or not live after death, but also it can mean general aversion

For example not wanting a hangover, craving for the non-existence of a hangover

So it basically means aversion
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clw_uk
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:51 pm

Plus, if birth is suffering, suppose non-existence is free from suffering. I can't see any difference between the end of one's birth and the end of one's existence?
From my understanding of the suttas the point is to stop giving birth to "I am", that is to stop clinging to, and identifying with, that which changes, causes dukkha and is not self

When we do that there is the deathless as there is no identifying with that which ages and falls apart (body, feeling, perception, thoughts and counciousness) "you" aren't reckoned in terms of that (body, feeling etc) ... I am not that, this is not my self etc

It seems what you are doing is identifying with the body, or feeling etc and taking a view of annihilationism. That is when this body ceases, "I" will cease, and taking Buddhism at aiming at that, which it isn't :)

Your view of death being an end is also not self, as are all view points and opinions
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clw_uk
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by clw_uk » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:59 pm

The Nikaya seems to be very evasive on the question of whether a person who attained Nirvana still exist or not after death so i hope any members here can help out my question above, thanks in advance.
Any attempt to "locate" an arahant after death throws you straight back into Clinging, into views of self or no self, straight back into a net of views and opinions etc, just as trying to locate an arahant when they are alive does
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mirco
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by mirco » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:57 pm

SarathW wrote:According to Buddhist stories, that Buddha descended from the Deva world (heaven) to this earth to attain Nirvana. Is it possible that we are here for the same reason?
I think it is. For sure.
Stepping up back into the Deva realms, where we came from or attaining Nibbana.
"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." - Bhikkhu Anālayo

Arjan Dirkse
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by Arjan Dirkse » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:13 pm

Yes. No. Maybe.

I think life doesn't come equipped with pre-determined purpose. Purpose is something you need to give it, now that you have this life, what do you do with it?

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Kusala
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by Kusala » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:13 am

SarathW wrote:According to Buddhist stories, that Buddha descended from the Deva world (heaven) to this earth to attain Nirvana.
Is it possible that we are here for the same reason?
Samsara is void of reason...

Image
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

SarathW
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by SarathW » Wed May 14, 2014 1:55 am

Some thing relevant to this topic:
===========
Venerable Sariputta’s questions are on thoughts and concepts. Let us
now try to translate the above catechism.
"With what as object, Samiddhi, do concepts and thoughts arise in
a man?" - "With name-and-form as object, venerable sir."
"But where, Samiddhi, do they assume diversity?" - "In the elements,
venerable sir."
"But from what, Samiddhi, do they arise?" - "They arise from
contact, venerable sir."
"But on what, Samiddhi, do they converge?" - "They converge on
feeling, venerable sir."
"But what, Samiddhi, is at their head?" - "They are headed by
concentration, venerable sir."
"But by what, Samiddhi, are they dominated?" - "They are dominated
by mindfulness, venerable sir."
"But what, Samiddhi, is their highest point?" - "Wisdom is their
highest point, venerable sir."
"But what, Samiddhi, is their essence?" - "Deliverance is their essence,
venerable sir."
"But in what, Samiddhi, do they get merged?" - "They get merged
in the deathless, venerable sir."
Some noteworthy points emerge from this catechism. All concepts
and thoughts have name-and-form as their object. The eighteen
elements account for their diversity. They arise with contact. They
converge on feeling. They are headed by concentration. They are
dominated by mindfulness. Their acme or point of transcendence is
wisdom. Their essence is deliverance and they get merged in the
deathless. Be it noted that the deathless is a term for Nibbana. Therefore,
as we have stated above, everything has the potentiality to yield
the deathless, provided radical attention is ushered in.


P198
http://www.seeingthroughthenet.net/file ... led_II.pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Denisa
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by Denisa » Thu May 15, 2014 2:22 am

I think it's not a question of "why we are here?" but a question of "what we are doing with this rare and precious human life?"

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Mkoll
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Re: Are we in this earth to attain Nirvana?

Post by Mkoll » Thu May 15, 2014 6:16 am

Kusala wrote:
SarathW wrote:According to Buddhist stories, that Buddha descended from the Deva world (heaven) to this earth to attain Nirvana.
Is it possible that we are here for the same reason?
Samsara is void of reason...

Image
That's a powerful picture...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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