Buddhism and religion

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
Samanera Tris Andika
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:22 pm

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by Samanera Tris Andika » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:48 pm

May i know why all of u choose Buddhis (sry if my engglish so bad ^^) :tongue:
"Sabbe Satta Bhavantu Sukhitatta
Dhamma is Amazing ,Logic and we must proud

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by kc2dpt » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:57 pm

pink_trike wrote:I agree that the FNT is a supreme motivation. I don't see this motivation as a religious impulse. I don't know why you do...
religion: a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance

(Oxford American, not Miriam Webster as I previously stated)

See the problem with refusing to focus on definitions? I can just as easily say "I don't know why you don't see it as a religious impulse." See how that gets us nowhere?
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

User avatar
Samanera Tris Andika
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:22 pm

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by Samanera Tris Andika » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:03 pm

:clap: :namaste:
"Sabbe Satta Bhavantu Sukhitatta
Dhamma is Amazing ,Logic and we must proud

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by kc2dpt » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:04 pm

You've finally gotten around to honestly stating what your purpose is with this thread:
pink_trike wrote:I would need to be religious to be able to use the term in a way that religious people understand it. I'm not religious, and I use it differently because I don't agree with how religious people define or perceive religion.
Here you state it is impossible for you to engage in meaningful dialog with people who hold a different view that you do. So if it's not open dialog your after, what is is?
pink_trike wrote:What I'm advocating (perhaps a bit too strong of a word) is that religion and the religious impulse should be dragged out of the closet and examined free from biases - as I did for years _before_ forming opinions of it and choosing not to engage in it. Before it can be examined free from biases, one must clearly know one's biases. This is consistent with the mission of Buddhist practice by any standard that I know. How can we claim to be something (or not) if we haven't examined it carefully from all sides, not just the side that makes us feel the most comfortable? I'm always surprised by self-described religious people who take religion and religious impulses for granted - who haven't asked themselves what their religious impulse is and why it arises in their mind-stream.
Ah, so it's not dialog you seek at all. What you seek is for other people to re-examine their own beliefs. You've already done your examination and concluded religion is bad, evil, harmful, unnecessary, etc. and you are inviting other people to come to the same conclusion. This is a very far cry from your OP: "I'm naturally curious why other people do [experienced Buddhism in any religious way]."
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

User avatar
Samanera Tris Andika
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:22 pm

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by Samanera Tris Andika » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:06 pm

i think be religius just for our way to do a good think , be a samana i can do a many good things and do a sila :anjali:
"Sabbe Satta Bhavantu Sukhitatta
Dhamma is Amazing ,Logic and we must proud

User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by Jechbi » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:43 pm

Hi PT,
pink_trike wrote:I agree that the FNT is a supreme motivation. I don't see this motivation as a religious impulse.
A question asked earlier: You've stated that the "religious impulse" (whatever it is) is not the same motivation as that described in the FNT. So my question is this:
What is it about the "religious impulse" that is not dukkha? (I even bolded this question earlier in hopes you'd see it.)

:thanks:
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by Jechbi » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:52 pm

Peter wrote:What you seek is for other people to re-examine their own beliefs. You've already done your examination and concluded religion is bad, evil, harmful, unnecessary, etc. and you are inviting other people to come to the same conclusion.
I have to say, Peter, that I think you're right. Pink, can you understand how some of us might have this impression? I get the feeling that you're making judgments about the degree to which the rest of us have applied critical thinking to our own views. You seem to be setting yourself out as the example for the rest of us to follow. What am I failing to understand in your presentation?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by clw_uk » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:04 pm

I have made another thread here http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1556" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; In order to help with this one


Metta
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 4718
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by clw_uk » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:06 pm

Peter

Making calls to kill off religion, insulting people who value religion... these are not examples of tolerance. Honestly, pink_trike, it is very clear your intent in this thread is not curiosity in the "other side", but rather to persuade the other side to change it's ways. Real, honest curiosity comes from respect.
The calls to "kill off" religion are coming from concern for my fellow humans. As for insulting people who value religion, no one here has done that
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

User avatar
Ngawang Drolma.
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:42 pm

In my household growing up, I really had it impressed upon me that religion is baaaaad. My father called it fantasy and fairy tales. I remember that my sister moved to Utah and she converted to Mormonism. She was afraid to tell him and she hid it for a long time. If I wanted to do a church activity or any religious activity, I had to do it on the sly.

When I was an older teen my father chilled out a little bit, and he said that I could do whatever I felt was right. But it's been my personal experience that when you grow up with these extremes, one way or the other, it's not ideal. My father was a physician and in my opinion, he worshiped science as much as any religious extremist worships an object of faith. And he was sort of noisy about it.

:anjali:

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by kc2dpt » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:20 pm

Ngawang Drolma wrote:In my household growing up, I really had it impressed upon me that religion is baaaaad. My father called it fantasy and fairy tales.... My father was a physician and in my opinion, he worshiped science as much as any religious extremist worships an object of faith. And he was sort of noisy about it.
Would you say it was a learned mind-form, consciously or unconsciously - a conceptual/emotional attachment regarding a group of ideas? A mental template that is applied to certain ideas, experiences, and institutions? A chosen lens - a learned, preferred way of categorizing certain information and authority as separate and other that morphs into an entrenched state of emotionality at the individual level of perception - from which delusion and confusion arises? :lol:

For those not getting the joke, that was pink_trikes criticism of religion. It seems clear to me these failings are not inherent to religion at all, but rather inherent to people. I suppose we could ask whether we think religion brings out these qualities more so than an aversion to religion.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

User avatar
Ngawang Drolma.
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:02 pm

Hi Peter,

Thanks for feedback about what I shared, I'm glad I made my point as it was intended.

:anjali:

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 19977
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:59 am

Greetings Peter,
Peter wrote: It seems clear to me these failings are not inherent to religion at all, but rather inherent to people. I suppose we could ask whether we think religion brings out these qualities more so than an aversion to religion.
:thumbsup:

Well said.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
pink_trike
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by pink_trike » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:01 am

Peter wrote:
Ngawang Drolma wrote:
Would you say it was a learned mind-form, consciously or unconsciously - a conceptual/emotional attachment regarding a group of ideas? A mental template that is applied to certain ideas, experiences, and institutions? A chosen lens - a learned, preferred way of categorizing certain information and authority as separate and other that morphs into an entrenched state of emotionality at the individual level of perception - from which delusion and confusion arises?

For those not getting the joke, that was pink_trikes criticism of religion. It seems clear to me these failings are not inherent to religion at all, but rather inherent to people. I suppose we could ask whether we think religion brings out these qualities more so than an aversion to religion.
Hi Peter,

I suppose we could quibble about whether it's "criticism" or "critical observation" which are very different flowers. :tongue:

I don't experience "aversion" to religion - I'm just very curious and puzzled by it, and sometimes concerned by it. For a long time I had an academic and professional interest (now just personal) in the psychological shadow of religion, the unacknowledged effects of religion and religiosity on mind and society.

I also have the same level of interest in aversion to religion (embattled atheism, for example) and it's psychological shadow effects in individuals and society. Imo, the two mind-states are very similar. It appears that both involve the same attachment but it gets acted out either as craving or aversion (from mild to extreme) - two sides of the same coin.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: Buddhism and religion

Post by Jechbi » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:15 am

pink_trike wrote:I don't experience "aversion" to religion - I'm just very curious and puzzled by it, and sometimes concerned by it.
Because you are judging other people.

I'd still be interested in an answer to this question, which I've put to you three times before in thread:
Jechbi wrote:
pink_trike wrote:I agree that the FNT is a supreme motivation. I don't see this motivation as a religious impulse.
A question asked earlier: You've stated that the "religious impulse" (whatever it is) is not the same motivation as that described in the FNT. So my question is this:
What is it about the "religious impulse" that is not dukkha? (I even bolded this question earlier in hopes you'd see it.)
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: altar and 52 guests